Against the Rules: The Big Short Companion
Business og økonomiSamfunnSportMichael Lewis’s best-selling book The Big Short is now 15 years old. The Oscar-winning movie based on it came out a decade ago. To mark the occasion, Lewis has narrated a new audiobook of The Big Short. Here on his podcast, he and co-host Lidia Jean Kott are thinking about the legacy of the book, the movie, and the financial crisis of 2008. Michael catches up with the director of the movie, Adam McKay, as well as some of the real-life characters depicted by the likes of Ryan Gosling, Steve Carell and Jeremy Strong. He also calls up journalists, economists, and historians to make sense of the 2008 financial crisis and to understand how it still affects the world today. Get your copy of The Big Short audiobook, narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, Apple Books, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks. iHeartMedia is the exclusive podcast partner of Pushkin Industries.
Siste episoder av Against the Rules: The Big Short Companion podcast
- How the Financial Crisis Broke Wall Street (00:31:03)
To make sense of Wall Street’s hangover from the crash described in The Big Short, Michael Lewis calls up Matt Levine. Levine is author of the Money Stuff newsletter for Bloomberg Opinion and co-host of a podcast by the same name. He’s also a former investment banker who was working at Goldman Sachs during the market crisis of 2008. He and Lewis talk about Bitcoin, bank regulation, and new forms of risk-taking — all ways Wall Street has changed since the crisis. Order The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Lessons of the Great Depression (00:35:27)
Andrew Ross Sorkin writes the business and policy newsletter DealBook for the New York Times and is co-anchor of Squawk Box on CNBC. He also has a historical bent, and has a new book out about the causes and consequences of the Great Depression in the 1930s. Sorkin speaks with Michael Lewis about how that crisis differed from the financial crash of 2008, and what we can learn by comparing the two eras. For more, check out Sorkin’s book 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History, and How it Shattered a Nation.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Lender of Last Resort (00:45:32)
When Michael Lewis wrote The Big Short, there was an extra character in the story: The Federal Reserve System, the central bank of the US, which bought up bad debt on the balance sheets of big Wall Street banks and trading firms. To better understand the Fed’s role in the financial crisis of 2008, Michael turns to UC Berkeley economics professor Emi Nakamura. And in the process, we get a master class in how currency works, and why there’s still some gold in the vaults of the Fed. For more, check out Emi Nakamura’s Macro Policy Lab. Order The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- The FrontPoint Boys (00:23:09)
The Big Short is centered around the story of investment advisors who noticed something was seriously wrong with the subprime housing market starting in the early 2000s. Why did the traders at FrontPoint Partners and others bet against the herd, at great risk to their reputations and their own careers? And what happened after those bets paid off — because the market crashed? Michael Lewis catches up with some of the most memorable characters in his book to find out what being right has done to their lives. For more, check out a newsletter by Danny Moses, Vincent Daniel, and Porter Collins called WHAT ARE WE DOING? (WAWD). Order The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- The Short Sellers (00:22:59)
Michael Lewis speaks with Greg Lippmann, formerly a bond trader at Deutsche Bank, made famous when he was portrayed by Ryan Gosling in the movie version of The Big Short. And Lewis catches up with Steve Eisman, the Wall Street investor who was played by actor Steve Carell. When did they each start to suspect the subprime mortgage market was rotten, and why? And how did they perceive each other in the wary days and months before the market crashed? For more, check out Steve Eisman’s podcast, The Real Eisman Playbook. Order The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Michael Lewis Interviews His Producer (00:25:42)
Against the Rules producer Lidia Jean Kott is the host of a new podcast series called The Chinatown Sting. It’s about a group of unlikely suspects at the center of a massive drug bust that took place in 1980s New York. Recently Michael spoke with LJ about her series at a coffee shop in Brooklyn called Land to Sea. You can listen to all six episodes of the “The Chinatown Sting” on Apple, Spotify, pushkin.fm/chinatown, or wherever you listen to podcasts.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Adam McKay is Still Angry About 2008 (00:36:43)
When Adam McKay decided to make a movie based on The Big Short, he was mainly known for his comedies. But he managed to get a bevy of star actors — among them Ryan Gosling, Brad Pitt, Steve Carell and Margot Robbie — to sign on and bring the intensity and arcane financial jargon of Wall Street to life. Michael Lewis sits down with McKay a decade after he made the Oscar-winning movie version of The Big Short to learn about the challenges of getting the film made — and why he’s still making movies about societal collapse. Get The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, Apple Books, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- The Big Short is Big Back (00:03:55)
Back in 2008, Michael Lewis started paying attention to Wall Street again, as banks and investment funds started to announce massive losses. Fifteen years ago, he published The Big Short, about a group of traders and investors who bet against a market that refused to see what was coming. Now it’s time to revisit both the book and the Oscar-winning movie based on it. Get The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, Apple Books, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Sen. Richard Blumenthal on the SAFE Bet Act (00:29:58)
Is anyone trying to regulate sports gambling on the federal level in the US? In the fall of 2024, Connecticut Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal introduced a bill with New York Congressman Paul Tonko. The SAFE Bet would restrict sports gambling ads and would help fund more gambling addiction treatment, among other things. Blumenthal speaks with Michael Lewis about why he sees sports gambling as a public health disaster in the making. Further reading: Blumenthal’s press release on the SAFE Bet Act.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Dr. Laurie Santos on Group Psychology, the Teen Brain, and Happiness (00:29:54)
Michael Lewis invites over Yale psychology professor Dr. Laurie Santos, host of The Happiness Lab at Pushkin, for a chat about what scientific research has to tell us about sports fandom, teenagers, and gambling. You can sign up for The Happiness Lab newsletter here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Natasha Schüll on the Antisocial Lure of Gambling (00:30:40)
As an anthropologist, Natasha Schüll spent more than a decade doing field work in Vegas casinos, especially among the slot machine addicts. She tells Michael Lewis why many of those who play slots actually hate to win. And she talks about how the digital overhaul of Vegas has made all forms of gambling, including sports gambling, more like slots. For further reading: Addiction by Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas by Natasha Schüll.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Episode 10: “Anybody Can Win, but Everybody’s Gonna Lose” (00:46:26)
Perhaps you have someone in your life who’s prone to sports gambling. Michael Lewis has someone. So he comes up with a scheme to “inoculate” his 17-year-old son against the lure of placing bets online. All the while, Lewis tries to craft the perfect “master class” for would-be gamblers to understand the dangers of what they might be getting themselves into. Here's his reading list: The Logic of Sports Betting by Matt Davidow and Ed Miller Stephen Pinker’s Rationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters Weapons of Math Destruction by Cathy O’Neil See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Episode 9: Framing the Gambler (00:29:51)
Michael Lewis gets a glimpse of sports gambling's future by talking with writers in Great Britain and Australia, where the industry is even more entrenched. But the US has its own peculiar history of failing to regulate dangerously addictive new products, and blaming the users instead. Especially when powerful industry advocates are able to pay scientists to sow doubt and delay the day of reckoning. For further reading: Lying for Money: How Legendary Frauds Reveal the Workings of our World by Dan Davies Crikey’s coverage on sports gambling in Australia: Punted Patrick Radden Keefe’s Empire of Pain: The Story of the Sackler Family and Purdue Pharma Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Episode 8: The Integrity Landscape (00:38:06)
Has betting based on inside intel on games gone down since sports gambling was legalized in the US? Not really, as Michael Lewis finds out. But what's gone up is misery for athletes. We hear from Atlanta Hawks forward Larry Nance, Jr. about the rage, threats and wheedling that pro athletes now endure. The NCAA, former Massachusetts governor Charlie Baker, is trying to protect student athletes on campus, while their friends all bet on them, often underaged. Overall, the “integrity landscape” for US sports looks more and more pot-holed by the day. For further reading: NCAA sports wagering surveySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Michael Lewis on the Prof G Pod (00:31:47)
Just recently, Michael Lewis was a guest on the "Prof G" podcast with Scott Galloway. He talks about the rise of sports betting and why the consequences might be a "disaster" for US society. And the two discuss the subject of Lewis's latest book, "Going Infinite." See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Vegas Sports Bookies on Old-School Betting (00:30:12)
On a visit to Las Vegas, Michael Lewis meets three old-school sports bookies. Chris Andrews, Jimmy Vaccaro, and Vinny Magliulo book bets and set odds at the South Point Hotel Casino. They talk about how they got started in Vegas, the origins of the prop bet, and why it's bad for business to limit smart bets.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Gambler Billy Walters on the Sharp's Life (00:37:10)
Michael Lewis sits down with Billy Walters, one of the most famous sports bettors of all time. They talk about Walters' impoverished childhood in Kentucky, and his transformation from an auto dealer to a professional poker player in Las Vegas to a sobered-up millionaire who's been indicted five times. For further reading: Gambler: Secrets from a Life at Risk by Billy Walters.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Episode 7: Little Big Short (00:43:17)
As a resident of California, Michael Lewis cannot place bets on any of the online sports books at the center of this season. They’re not allowed to operate in the state. But why? We hear from pastors, Native Americans and short-sellers about why a handful of states are still holding out, and why those efforts are most likely doomed. For further reading: Steve Ruddock’s gaming newsletter Straight to the Point Inside the $400 million fight to control California sports betting by Gus Garcia-Roberts, Washington Post. This episode has been corrected to reflect the accurate title of Victor Rocha. He is Conference Chair of the Indian Gaming Association, not the Chair.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Episode 6: VIP (00:35:35)
What does it mean to be a “very important person” in the world of online sports betting? Not necessarily what you think. We hear from recovering gambling addicts and state regulators frustrated with some of the perverse incentives to keep people on a losing streak. Meanwhile, our show’s own producers hope for a VIP night at the concert of the year. For further reading: Legalizing Sports Gambling Was a Huge Mistake by Charles Fain Lehman. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Episode 5: The Mule (00:32:06)
The role has many names: “Runner,” “mover,” “betting partner,” and “mule.” As skilled sports gamblers find themselves limited on apps, they turn to these affiliates to place their bets in return for a piece of the proceeds. Against the Rules decides to explore this murky world by signing up for mule-dom with one of the world’s most skilled sports bettors.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- An Interview with Ted Olson (00:33:55)
Constitutional lawyer and former US Solicitor Ted Olson recently died at the age of 84. Olson represented the state of New Jersey in its efforts to overturn a federal ban on sports gambling. Those efforts succeeded, as we hear in our episode "Welcome to the Garden State." But Olson and Michael Lewis talked about many other aspects of his vivid legal career. We're offering their full conversation today.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Episode 4: A Hard Way to Make an Easy Living (00:37:05)
Michael Lewis heads to Las Vegas to explore the way sports betting used to work, up until the day it was rapidly legalized by states around the country. We meet the betting sharps who figured out what others couldn’t and set the odds for other bookies. That is, up until everyone seemed to have a casino on their smartphone. But the new online casino differs from the old ones in an important way: It doesn’t take all bets. For further reading: Edward Thorp’s Beat the Dealer “Cigars, Booze, Money: How a Lobbying Blitz Made Sports Betting Ubiquitous” by Eric Lipton and Kenneth P. VogelSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Nate Silver on the Risky Business of Sports Betting (00:37:40)
As the US election nears, Michael Lewis sits down with Nate Silver, co-host of the Pushkin podcast Risky Business (along with the writer, psychologist and professional poker player Maria Konnikova). They talk about why people bet on elections, the problem with sports gamblers in the United States, and Silver’s new book, On the Edge: The Art of Risking Everything. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Marci Cottingham on the Religious Passion of Steeler Nation (00:23:55)
Is there a difference between fandom and religion? In Pittsburgh, it can be hard to tell. Fans of the city’s football team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, seem to have a cradle-to-grave devotion, complete with a golden relic, the “terrible towel.” Michael Lewis talks with sociologist Marci Cottingham, a native of Steeler Nation, about her work studying the religious overtones of fandom, and why the positive experiences of sports fans should get more scholarly attention. For further reading: Marci Cottingham’s Practical Feelings: Emotions as Resources in a Dynamic Social WorldSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
- Alison LaCroix on How History Rhymes at the Supreme Court (00:34:13)
It may seem like sports gambling got legalized overnight in the US. But it was in fact a winding road to get there. Michael Lewis speaks with legal historian and University of Chicago professor Alison L. LaCroix about all the factors that led to the Supreme Court overturning, in 2018, a federal law called the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act. And they explore why, in some eras of US history, the Court tends to lean towards “states rights” arguments. For further reading: Alison LaCroix’s The Interbellum Constitution: Union, Commerce, and Slavery in the Age of FederalismsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.