Design Better co-hosts Eli Woolery and Aarron Walter explore the intersection of design, technology, and the creative process through conversations with guests across many creative fields, helping you hone your craft, unlock your creativity, and learn the art of collaboration.
Whether you’re design curious or a design pro, Design Better is guaranteed to inspire and inform. Vanity Fair calls Design Better, “sharp, to the point, and full of incredibly valuable information for anyone looking to better understand how to build a more innovative world.”
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Mark Wilson: Fast Company's Global Design Editor on design's defining moments in 2025 (00:42:23)
As 2025 draws to a close, it’s time to pause and take stock of what’s been a transformational year in design. From Figma’s landmark IPO to the rise of AI across every category of product, to major brand evolutions at Nike, Netflix, and The New York Times—this year has been defined by what our guest today calls “mass acceleration.”
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Mark Wilson is the Global Design Editor at Fast Company, where he’s been tracking these seismic shifts, reporting on everything from the architecture of data centers to the comeback of wired headphones. He’s a journalist who straddles multiple worlds—covering the design industry, and now co-hosting the By Design podcast. He’s someone who can explain why Labuboos became an unlikely cultural phenomenon and why your kids might be more interested in building with Chompsaw than staring at a screen.
Today, we’re looking back at 2025 with Mark to understand not just what happened, but what it all means. We’ll explore the biggest moments in design and business, and tackle the uncomfortable questions about AI—are we in a bubble? Is it actually making us more productive? And what does the future hold for designers in an automated world?
We’ll also dig into the design industry’s blind spots, the problems that aren’t getting solved because they’re not sexy or VC-fundable, and why there’s a growing hunger for physical craft and working with our hands in a world increasingly mediated by screens.
Video Rewind: Cassie McDaniel: How Medium eliminated its PM function and started moving faster (00:27:00)
We’re taking a holiday break, so we’re rewinding to one of our favorite episodes this year with Cassie McDaniel, Medium’s head of design. We’re also including video from the episode, which you can watch here or on our YouTube channel at dbtr.co/youtube. We hope you have a lovely holiday season with your family, friends, and loved ones.
—Eli & Aarron
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Cassie McDaniel, Medium’s head of design, is someone with a clear vision for how a design team should work. She believes team members should have a breadth of skills, craft should be the foundation of product design, and experimentation is important in both work and workflow. To that end, Cassie and the leadership team at Medium recently made what some might see as a controversial decision: They eliminated product management. The result? They are moving faster than ever.
We chat with Cassie about what led to this decision—and why it might not work for all teams, how she thinks about balancing Medium’s legacy of thoughtful design while moving the product forward, and how writing can help you advance your design career.
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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
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Aaron Draplin: Field Notes co-founder on what skate culture taught him about design (00:27:14)
A larger than life figure in the creative world, Aaron Draplin has been designing everything from logos to posters since 1995. Few designers are as prolific as Aaron. He’s the founder of Draplin Design Co. (DDC). Priding himself on craftsmanship and quality, the DDC has made stuff for Field Notes, Esquire, Nike, Red Wing, Burton Snowboards, Ford, and he’s even designed a US stamp.
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We caught up with Aaron in person at The James Brand studio in Portland, Oregon, where he walked us through an origin story that begins with a meteor in Navajo country and winds through the skate parks of Michigan in the 80s, the snowboard culture of the 90s, and eventually to one of the most recognizable voices in American graphic design.
But this isn’t just a conversation about making cool stuff—though there’s plenty of that. Aaron opens up about the work ethic he learned from his parents, and why being prolific isn’t about perfection—it’s about experimentation, and loving your work enough to show up every single day.
We talk about collecting, organizing thousands of ideas, and what it means to run a design practice where you can still work on your own terms. And throughout it all, Aaron brings the humor, the heart, and the hard-won wisdom of someone who’s never forgotten what it’s like to work a crappy job—and who reminds himself every day just how cool a life in graphic design really is.
Bio
Aaron Draplin was born in Detroit in 1973 and raised in the small village of Central Lake in Northern Michigan—population 800. After a brief stint at Northwestern Michigan Community College, he moved west to Bend, Oregon at 19 to chase the snowboarding life, and started designing graphics for Solid Snowboards. To fund his winters, he worked summers as everything from a traveling fair pizza wagon cook, to a dishwasher in Anchorage, Alaska.
He eventually returned to the Midwest to finish his design degree at Minneapolis College of Art and Design, before heading back west to become art director of Snowboarder Magazine in Southern California. In 2002, he moved to Portland to work as a senior designer at Cinco Design, where he worked on brands like Gravis, Helly Hansen, and Nixon.
In 2004, Aaron founded Draplin Design Co., working with clients ranging from Nike and Patagonia to Sub Pop Records and the Obama Administration. In 2009, he co-founded Field Notes with Jim Coudal and Coudal Partners—a collaboration that would become one of the most successful and beloved stationery brands in America. That same year, he gave his first public talk, which spiraled into a speaking career that’s now reached over 580 engagements worldwide.
His book Pretty Much Everything was published by Abrams in 2016 and is now in its 13th printing. At 51, Aaron continues to run his fiercely independent design practice from a backyard shop in Portland, Oregon.
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This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
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Jessica Hische and Chris Shiflett: Designing business tools that support how creatives actually work (01:08:48)
Jessica Hische and Chris Shiflett first crossed paths at Studiomates, a Brooklyn based co-working space where some of New York’s most talented designers built businesses and influential organizations.
Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jessica-hische-and-chris-shiflett
Jessica, known for her lettering and illustration work with clients like Wes Anderson and The New York Times, and Chris, whose career spans from the early foundations of the web to co-founding Brooklyn Beta, both experienced firsthand what happens when passionate, independent creatives come together.
Today, they’re channeling those lessons into Studioworks, a business platform built specifically for independent studios and creative professionals. They’re tackling the unglamorous but essential parts of running a creative practice—invoicing, project management, client relationships—with the same care and community spirit that defined those Brooklyn days.
In this conversation, we talk about the magic of Studiomates and Brooklyn Beta, what they learned from running their own studios for years, and why they decided to bootstrap a tool for the creative community rather than chase venture capital. It’s a story about building something sustainable, beautiful, and genuinely useful for the people who make things.
Bios
Jessica Hische is one of the most beloved and influential designers of the past two decades. She’s best known for her lettering and illustration, but equally for her generosity in sharing what she knows. Jessica was part of the original Studiomates community in Brooklyn, has worked with clients like Wes Anderson, The New York Times, and Penguin Books, and now brings her creative leadership to Studioworks, where she and Chris are building better tools for independent creatives and small studios.
Chris Shiflett is a longtime friend of the design community whose career spans the deep foundations of the early web and the heart of the creative world. His early books on HTTP and web security became unexpectedly influential at a time when the internet was still taking shape, opening the door to some extraordinary projects — including one that generated nearly half of the internet’s traffic and another responsible for a fourth of the world’s email. After years helping big internet companies solve scalability problems, he realized he was more inspired by the people creating them — the designers, founders, and builders making things people love. That shift led him to the original Studiomates community, to co-founding Brooklyn Beta, and ultimately to the work he and Jessica are doing today with Studioworks.
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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
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2025 Holiday Gift Guide (00:44:41)
It’s that time of year again—our favorite episode to put together. A moment to look back at the objects, experiences, and ideas that sparked creativity for us this year. From books that moved us to tools that surprised us to experiences we can’t stop recommending, we’ve gathered a set of gift ideas for the designers, makers, and curious people in your life (including you).
We’re starting with budget-friendly picks and moving up from there, so whether you’re filling a stocking or going big, you’ll find something here. Let’s get into it.
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Before we get to the list, if you’re looking to give (or get) the gift of education, for the next week only you can get or gift a year of premium for 25% off, our only sale of the year. Buying a year-long subscription will get you to our ever-expanding Design Better Toolkit (with over $2K in discounts on tools and courses), as well as monthly AMAs, ad-free episodes, and our library of books. Doing this also supports anyone who can’t afford a subscription through our scholarship program.
25% off a year, expires in 1 week
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Find the full gift list on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/2025-holiday-gift-guide
Phil Gilbert: Making a 114-year-old, 400,000 person company care about design (00:44:09)
Changing the culture of a 400,000-person company isn’t just hard—it’s the kind of transformation most leaders wouldn’t even attempt. But when Phil Gilbert joined IBM as General Manager of Design in 2010, that’s exactly what he set out to do. And remarkably, he had a lot of success.
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Phil led one of the most ambitious design transformations in corporate history, hiring over 1,000 designers, creating IBM’s design thinking framework, and embedding a new way of working across nearly 180 countries. Now, with his new book Irresistible Change, Phil is sharing the blueprint for how he did it—and more importantly, how you can apply these lessons to your own organization.
In this episode, we talk with Phil about treating change like a high-stakes product, why IBM’s transformation was opt-in rather than top-down, and what it takes to win over engineers who’ve spent decades deeply entrenched in a technical worldview. We also explore the design thinking bootcamp that became legendary within IBM, the intentional design of physical studio spaces, and what happened after Phil left the company.
Phil’s insights aren’t just for those leading massive organizations—they’re for anyone trying to spark meaningful change, build enthusiasm without mandates, and create work that actually matters to the people doing it.
Bio
Phil Gilbert is best known for leading IBM’s 21st century transformation as their General Manager of Design. After selling his third startup to IBM in 2010, Phil was asked by IBM in 2012 to use design thinking, coupled with agile, to update how IBM’s teams worked. The transformation became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary film The Loop, and feature articles in the New York Times, Fortune Magazine, Forbes, Bloomberg, INC and many others.
Phil’s 45-year career spans startups, large corporations, and board memberships, where he has led organizations ranging from solo ventures to those with 400,000 employees. In 2018 Phil was inducted into the New York Foundation for the Arts’ Hall of Fame. In 2019, the State of Oklahoma (Phil’s native state) named him an Oklahoma Creativity Ambassador for his achievements in the world of creative thinking and innovation.
Phil left full-time operational responsibilities at IBM in 2022 in order to focus on helping the next generation of entrepreneurs, business, and military leaders understand how to impact culture at scale, to improve innovation and team performance. Phil lives in Austin, Texas.
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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
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If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com
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Cecilia Brenner: Moving beyond design theater to measurable impact (00:22:53)
We’ve talked to many design leaders who have burned out after a decade or more of corporate work. But after 17 years at Philips designing health innovations, Cecilia Brenner wasn’t burnt out…she loved it. And she wanted to find a way to scale her sense of purpose, so she joined Design for Good as Managing Director, and found a way to work with hundreds of designers who want meaningful impact without leaving their day jobs.
This is a preview of a premium episode, find the full episode on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/cecilia-brenner
Design for Good mobilizes what Cecilia calls a “radical global action collective”—1,600 designers from companies like Philips, Lloyds Bank, and others—to tackle UN Sustainable Development Goals through focused, two-year cycles. Their first cycle addressed clean water and sanitation. Now they’re working on quality education. And here’s the twist: everything they create is open source.
In our conversation, Cecilia explains how Design for Good measures real impact (not estimated future impact), why they chose to focus on one SDG at a time instead of spreading resources thin, and what it means to design for “all life,” not just human life. If you’ve ever wondered how to find more meaning in your design work—or questioned whether purpose-driven projects actually move the needle—this episode offers a surprisingly practical model.
Bio
Cecilia Brenner is the Managing Director of Design for Good, a global alliance dedicated to creating lasting, measurable impact for the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). Since joining in May 2024, Cecilia has successfully led the charity in mobilising hundreds of creatives to design in close collaboration with NGOs and affected communities worldwide.
With over 25 years of international experience in design and leadership, Cecilia is a catalyst for inclusion, innovation, and impact. She previously served as an Experience Design Director & Business Partner at Philips, where she spent 17 years improving people’s health and well-being through meaningful innovation, building high-performing, engaged global design teams and communities, as well as leading transformational programmes with a unique blend of network leadership, team-building excellence, and strategic insight.
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Premium Episodes on Design Better
This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
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Video Rewind: Jordan Mechner: Pioneering game designer on creating Prince of Persia, Karateka, and a new graphic novel memoir (00:24:57)
This is a preview of a premium episode. You can find a video version of the full episode on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dvoGPZEY1g
We’ve been on the road this week, recording some in-person episodes in Portland Oregon, with Ryan Coulter—co-founder of The James Brand, and the wonderfully hilarious graphic designer Aaron Draplin.
We’re excited to bring you this episodes soon, and in the meantime we’re rewinding to one of our favorite episodes this year with Prince of Persia creator Jordan Mechner. You may have heard that we’re publishing more video from our episodes, and you can now find a video version of this episode on YouTube. Enjoy!
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As a kid in the 80’s, Eli fell in love with games on computers like the Apple II, Commodore 64, and later the Amiga and Macintosh. One of the very first games he played was called Karateka, which was inspiring for the realistic movements of its digital karate antagonists, even on a black-and-green Apple II monitor.
Our guest today, Jordan Mechner, created Karateka while an undergrad at Yale University in 1984, and it went on to be a commercial success. He followed it up with the game Prince of Persia (you’ll hear a clip from the soundtrack in the introduction, which Jordan’s father composed and which Jordan invented a way to transpose onto the Apple II’s tinny speakers before game soundtracks were widespread on the machine).
Jordan documented the creation of the game in a wonderful published version of his diaries called The Making of Prince of Persia, and we spoke with him about how he taught himself the skills to build successful video games in a pre-internet era, why he journaled about his work process (and what it taught him), and about his new graphic novel Replay, a memoir recounting his own family story of war, exile and new beginnings.
Karateka on the Apple IIPrince of Persia on the Apple II (play the Mac version online here)
Ben Swire: Author of "Safe Danger" on the hidden reason team building efforts fail (00:50:20)
As educators, we’ve grown wary of the term “safe spaces,” especially when what many students really need is a space to engage with “dangerous” ideas. But true dialogue doesn’t begin with risk—it starts with trust. Our guest today, Ben Swire, wrote the book Safe Danger, which offers a thoughtful, practical approach to building the psychological safety that allows curiosity, connection, and even productive disagreement to flourish.
Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/ben-swire-former-ideo-design-lead
Ben’s career took him from the buttoned-up world of financial marketing to IDEO—a shift he describes as going “from Kansas into Oz.” At IDEO, he discovered that world-class work could be fueled by something radically different than what he’d experienced everywhere else. That discovery led him to spend years exploring a deceptively simple question: How do you get people to fail but enjoy doing it?
The answer became the foundation of his book and his work—a concept he calls “Safe Danger,” that sweet spot where people feel safe enough to leave safety behind, but challenged enough to grow. In this conversation, we’ll explore why team building desperately needs reclaiming, how an introvert ended up running a team building company, and why the quality of your relationships at work matters way more than you think.
Get the book
Bio
Ben Swire is an award-winning designer and writer, and former Design Lead at IDEO. His work spans design thinking, philosophy, cinema, and psychoanalytic theory, driven by curiosity about the hidden factors that shape our lives.
At IDEO, Ben created Make Believe Time, a bi-weekly creative play date where colleagues learned, created, and meaningfully connected. When interest spread beyond IDEO, Make Believe Works was born—now helping organizations from Fortune 500 companies to startups build the creative and emotional muscle memory that leads to healthy, innovative, collaborative cultures.
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New tools in the Toolkit
We’ve just upgraded the Design Better Toolkit, with new tools and other perks (now worth almost $2K in total).
Here’s what’s new in the Toolkit:
TextExpander (a wonderful productivity tool, 6 months free)
Kittl (tools and templates to support your creative process, 6 months free)
Subatomic: The Complete Guide to Design Tokens (20% off)
Design Better Coffee & Tea (fuel your creativity, 15% off).
Some of these perks are very limited and will sell out quickly.
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Jeremy Faludi: Sustainability professor on why most sustainable design fails before it starts (00:21:48)
Design is a problem solving discipline. We research user needs, explore solutions, make things, and ship them. But one important stakeholder is often missing from the conversation: the world we live in. What toll do the products we design impose upon the environment? Sustainability is an essential part of the discipline of design, but not understood by designers. If only we had a manual to get us up to speed.
This is a preview of a paid episode. Access the full episode on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jeremy-faludi
Our guest today, Jeremy Faludi, has spent a lot of time researching, writing, and thinking about environmental impact and design. He’s a researcher and author of Sustainable Design: From Vision to Action. Jeremy has spent decades helping companies move beyond good intentions to evidence-based decisions—from working with Stanley Black & Decker to pioneering biomaterial 3D printing at Delft University of Technology.
How much power do you think large language models use? The answer is surprising. We explore why a hairdryer company wasted nine months of engineering time on plastic reductions, how systems thinking reveals the true environmental impact of our designs, and the materials research going into sustainable 3D printing.
Bio
Jeremy Faludi is an assistant professor of Design for Sustainability at TU Delft’s Faculty of Industrial Design Engineering, where he focuses on sustainable design methods and additive manufacturing. He created the Whole System Mapping method and in 2004 designed the Biomimicry Institute’s first online database, now known as AskNature.org. His work spans from practical design—including a bicycle featured in the Smithsonian Cooper-Hewitt Design Museum’s 2007 “Design for the Other 90%” exhibit—to developing tools for life cycle assessment, product reparability, and health hazard assessment. In green 3D printing, he’s a leading voice, having written the OECD’s policy recommendations and the Additive Manufacturer Green Trade Association’s first white paper, along with publishing the industry’s most comprehensive life cycle assessments.
Originally trained as a physicist (he helped improve LIGO’s vibration damping system to pay for design school), Jeremy worked as a sustainable designer in industry for fifteen years before returning to academia. He’s taught at Stanford, Dartmouth, and Minneapolis College of Art and Design, and has contributed to six books on sustainable design, including Worldchanging: A User’s Guide for the 21st Century. He’s also created multiple online courses for organizations like VentureWell, the Cradle to Cradle Product Innovation Institute, and Autodesk. In 2012, he created StreetNatureScore.com, which used 11 billion satellite imagery datapoints to provide nature scores for any US address.
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This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
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Alison Rand: Leading with radical humanity instead of radical candor (00:46:37)
We’ve worked alongside people for years, only to realize that we know nothing about their personal life. And it probably affected our working relationship. Knowing your colleagues as humans reframes inevitable challenges at work. Had we known our colleagues better, would we have worked through disagreements better or found new ways to collaborate? Yeah, we sure would have.
Alison Rand, who helped establish the discipline of design operations through roles at Hot Studio, Frog, Automattic, and SAP, explores building relationships at work in her new book Sentido—a term that encompasses both making sense of things and feeling them deeply.
In our conversation, Alison challenges the Silicon Valley orthodoxy of radical candor with her concept of radical humanity. She also explains why designops is fundamentally heart-driven work, and draws unexpected parallels between organizational dynamics and the regenerative systems of Puerto Rico’s El Yunque rainforest.
Bio
Alison Rand brings a unique perspective forged in the crucible of real experience. A native NewYorker who lost her mother at sixteen, she learned early that life rarely follows neat narratives. Her career trajectory—from navigating the male-dominated agency world to building design operations practices at scale—taught her that the skills needed to thrive professionally often mirror those learned navigating the New York subway in the 1980s. After being laid off the same week MIT Press accepted her book proposal, she retreated to the woods to write what became part memoir, part radical reimagining of design leadership.
She makes the case that organic intelligence matters as much as academic credentials, and that the future of design leadership lies not in prescriptive frameworks but in building cultures of genuine mutualism.
Whether you’re wrestling with organizational transformation or questioning the artificial boundaries between personal and professional identity, Alison offers hard-won wisdom about leading with both courage and compassion in spaces that often reward neither.
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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
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The Brief: How our recent past should prepare us for the age of AI (00:14:47)
In this issue of The Brief, we’re reflecting on what we learned about the past and future of design from our conversation with Paola Antonelli (The Museum of Modern Art), Mark Wilson (Fast Company), Kate Aronowitz (GV), Mike Davidson (Microsoft), and Meaghan Choi (Anthropic).
Looking back at 30 years of design
by Eli Woolery
Roughly thirty years ago, I was an undergrad, sitting in our dorm’s computer cluster —this was before the days when most students had laptops. I ran into something I hadn’t seen before. It was called Netscape Navigator, and it was one of the first commercial internet browsers (which our very first guest on Design Better, Irene Au, helped design).
I clicked on one of the buttons (probably, “What’s Cool”), and along with a nifty loading animation, the browser took me down some early internet rabbit hole.
I don’t remember where exactly I ended up, but I do remember being blown away by the experience. As a computer nerd kid in the 80’s, I had spent plenty of time with bulletin board systems (BBS’s) and things like America Online, which we could access through a dial-up modem from home.
But this was very different. It was fast—compared to what I was used to—and it felt like I could almost instantaneously access content from all around the world (even though the content online at the time was a miniscule fraction of what it is today).
I had entered school to study product design, but this was for products in the physical world…digital product design didn’t exist as we know it today. The first use of the phrase “User Experience” in a job title was Don Norman’s role a a User Experience Architect at Apple in the mid-90s.
Browsers like Netscape Navigator, and then the introduction of the iPhone in 2007, opened up a new world of opportunities and challenges for the field of design. In our conversation with Paola and Mark, we talked about four: the democratization paradox, design’s loss of innocence, the fragmentation of the design profession, and the shift from tangible to intangible design.
The Democratization Paradox
“We democratized all the tools and we democratized none of the platforms. And that gap is just in a nutshell, kind of what’s broken about the individual’s ability to communicate.”—Mark Wilson, Fast Company
While design tools and capabilities have been democratized (everyone can now access design software, create content, etc.), the platforms and systems remain highly centralized within a few large companies—Meta, Google, TikTok, etc.
The early, messy days of the internet (Geocities, MySpace) have been largely tamed, which can make for better user experiences, but we also miss the wild creativity that came from having an infinite number of ways to express yourself online. Back then, your personal web page could be a nightmare of animated GIFs, visitor counts, and autoplay music—terrible for usability, but at least it was yours.
Today, we’re all posting in the same formats, and are subjected to the same algorithmic rules for engagement. The tools to create have never been more powerful or accessible, yet we’re increasingly creating within narrower and narrower boundaries defined by a handful of tech giants.
Visit our Substack to read the whole article: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/the-brief-how-our-recent-past-should
Fitz and the Tantrums: Finding your creative voice in your 40's and why success feels different than you think (00:29:20)
This is a preview of a premium Design Better episode. Visit our Substack to hear the whole interview, for bonus content, and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/fitz-and-the-tantrums
With the 150th official episode of Design Better, we’ve got something special for you.
For many of us, if we haven’t had creative success by our 40’s, we feel like we may have missed the boat. But Michael “Fitz” Fitzpatrick of Fitz and the Tantrums didn’t achieve pop star status until he was well into his 40’s, and now that he’s in his 50’s he feels like he’s just getting started.
Haven’t heard of Fitz and the Tantrums? Yes you have...their hit single "HandClap" has rocked stadiums at sporting events around the world.
In our conversation, Fitz reveals how the band prototypes their live performances and why constraint has been essential to their creative evolution. He talks to us about the parallels of songwriting and product design, the importance of reading the room—whether it’s 50 or 50,000 people—and why the best performances, like the best designs, create space for the audience to become co-creators.
Fitz also opens up about how even after achieving his creative dreams, there was an emptiness that he struggled with, and where he found true happiness.
Bio
Michael “Fitz” Fitzpatrick (born Michael Sean Fitzpatrick on July 21, 1970) is a French-American musician, singer, and songwriter best known as the frontman and creative force behind the indie pop and neo-soul band Fitz and the Tantrums. Born in Montluçon, France and raised in Los Angeles, Fitzpatrick studied vocal music in high school and later attended the California Institute of the Arts, where he explored experimental film. Before forming his own band, he worked behind the scenes as a sound engineer, collaborating with producer Mickey Petralia.
In 2008, Fitzpatrick bought a used church organ for fifty dollars and wrote “Breakin’ the Chains of Love” that same night — the song that would inspire the creation of Fitz and the Tantrums. As lead vocalist and keyboardist, he helped the group rise quickly with their debut album Pickin’ Up the Pieces (2010), which drew praise for its blend of Motown soul, indie pop, and modern energy. Subsequent albums such as More Than Just a Dream and their self-titled 2016 release, featuring the breakout hit “HandClap,” cemented the band’s place in the modern pop landscape.
Bonus Episode: 30 years of design with Wert&Co, live in NYC featuring Paola Antonelli, Mark Wilson,Kate Aronowitz, Mike Davidson, and Meaghan Choi (01:12:14)
Visit our Substack for bonus content and more:https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/bonus-episode-30-years-of-design
Today we celebrate 30 years of Wert&Co.—the quiet champions of design who have shaped our field by placing the brightest designers in roles of influence at brands that impact culture, commerce, and community.
Design Better is brought to you by Wix Studio, the most powerful web design platform for entrepreneurs, agencies, and creative thinkers. Learn more →
To mark the occasion, Design Better is live in New York City with an inspiring panel. We’ll look back at how design has shaped the world over the past three decades and look ahead to the essential role design must play as technology reshapes the human experience.
Our conversation begins with Paola Antonelli, Senior Curator of Architecture and Design and Director of Research & Development at The Museum of Modern Art. Paola is one of the most influential voices in contemporary design, exploring how design shapes culture, technology, and society.
We’re also joined by Mark Wilson, Global Design Editor at Fast Company. Mark covers the intersection of design, technology, and culture, bringing a journalist’s rigor and a designer’s eye to stories that reach millions.
In the second half of our conversation, we shift our focus to the present and future of design—the teams, the individual contributors, and the leaders who are navigating this evolution in real time.
Kate Aronowitz, and Meaghan Choi, and Mike Davidson are three leaders who have different perspectives on where design is headed, and what it means to build meaningful careers in this rapidly changing landscape.
Kate Aronowitz is a Design Partner at GV, where she helps companies of all sizes build design-driven cultures.
Meaghan Choi is a Product Designer at Anthropic, focused on developer experiences for emerging technologies like AI and cloud computing, including her work on Claude Code.
Mike Davidson is VP of Design and User Research at Microsoft AI, with more than two decades leading design at companies including Twitter, Disney, and ESPN.
Rewind: Paola Antonelli: How design shapes culture (00:59:17)
Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/rewind-paola-antonelli
Design Better has been on the road recently, recording a live episode in Manhattan for design search firm Wert & Co’s 30th anniversary. Guests for the episode included Paola Antonelli (senior curator in the Department of Architecture and Design at MoMA) Mike Davidson (VP of Design and User Research at Microsoft AI), Kate Aronowitz (Design Partner at Google Ventures), Meaghan Choi (Product Designer at Anthropic), & Mark Wilson (Global Design Editor at Fast Company).
While Aarron and I are catching up from travel, and as a lead-in to the live episode airing next week, we’re rewinding to our interview with Paola Antonelli. We hope you enjoy the episode.
And if you haven’t checked it out yet, did you know you can save over $1600 on popular productivity tools and design and AI courses with the Design Better Toolkit? Just head over to dbtr.co/toolkit to learn more.
***
The Museum of Modern Art brings to mind images of Van Gough’s Starry Night, Salvador Dali’s Persistence of Memory, and Andy Warhol’s Campbell Soup Cans. But thanks to Paola Antonelli, senior curator in the Department of Architecture and Design, MoMA exhibitions also encompass the role design has played in shaping culture and the human experience.
We talk with Paola about how we can look at digital design through a historic lens, some of the most important design movements in the past 100 years, and how the creative process has evolved through these different movements.
We also talk about the history of the @ symbol, why craftsmanship is necessary to experimentation, and some of the current challenges in design education.
We hope you enjoy this episode which is a part of our series on design history, with upcoming episodes on typography with Jonathan Hoefler, and the history and philosophy of design with Professor Barry Katz.
Paola Antonelli joined The Museum of Modern Art in 1994 and is the Museum’s Senior Curator in the Department of Architecture and Design, as well as MoMA’s founding Director of Research and Development. Her work investigates design in all its forms, from architecture to video games, often expanding its reach to include overlooked objects and practices.
An architect trained at the Polytechnic of Milan and a pasionaria of design, Antonelli has been named one of the 25 most incisive design visionaries in the world by TIME magazine, has earned the Design Mind Smithsonian Institution’s National Design Award, has been inducted in the US Art Directors Club Hall of Fame, and has received the AIGA (American Institute of Graphic Artists,) the London Design Medal, and the German Design Award, among other accolades.
Keith Sawyer: Become more creative by learning to see (00:28:14)
This is a preview of a premium episode on Design Better. To listen to the whole episode, head to our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/keith-sawyer
The key to creativity isn’t about having brilliant ideas in isolation, but about cultivating our ability to observe the world around us, and make the intuitive leaps that connect disparate ideas. Keith Sawyer, a creativity researcher who spent over a decade interviewing hundreds of art and design professors and students to understand how creative professionals learn to see—and think—differently, writes about this in his new book, Learning to See.
Keith brings a unique perspective to creativity research. A jazz pianist turned MIT computer science graduate, he designed video games in the early 1980s before pivoting to study the science of creativity under the legendary Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi at the University of Chicago. His latest book challenges common myths about the creative process and reveals why the most successful artists and designers don’t start with a vision—they discover it through an iterative dialogue with their work.
In our conversation, Keith shares insights from his research on improvisational creativity, explains why ambiguity is essential to the creative process, and discusses how AI is reshaping—but not replacing—human creativity.
Bio
Dr. Keith Sawyer is the Morgan Distinguished Professor in Educational Innovations at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Dr. Sawyer is one of the world’s leading creativity researchers. He’s studied jazz ensembles, Chicago improv theater, children’s play, and creative classrooms. He’s published 20 books, including Group Genius: The Creative Power of Collaboration and Zig Zag: The Surprising Path to Greater Creativity.
Books & Links mentioned:
The Science of Creativity, Keith Sawyer’s podcast (and his Substack).
Flow and Creativity by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi:
Creative Confidence by Tom Kelley and David Kelley
The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron
The Creative Act by Rick Rubin
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Jae Park: Designing a new generation of vehicles at Ford, and why friction matters in the creative process (00:47:11)
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As designers and creatives, many of us spent years of our career looking at blank canvases and attempting to find the best place to start solving the problems in front of us. Now that AI can churn out designs and imagery, not to mention writing, video, and even music in seconds, what are we losing from the friction that is being removed from the creative process?
Our guest today, Jae Park, VP of Digital Product Design at Ford's Electric Vehicle Digital Design division, posed this question to us. Jae previously led design teams at Microsoft, Amazon, and Google—companies that epitomize the "move fast and break things" mentality of Silicon Valley. But he questions whether our obsession with speed is actually how we want to live.
We talk with Jae about the "valley" between disruptions, why Ford's pivot to affordable EVs matters for American manufacturing, how Gen Alpha will reshape our expectations of vehicles, and why the Socratic method might be more important than any design tool in the age of AI.
Jae also discusses what might be his most complex challenge yet: helping a 120-year-old automotive icon compete in an era where, as he puts it, "the phone and the car are becoming the same thing"—at least in rapidly evolving markets like China.
Bio
Jae Park is a design leader with a track record of building teams and driving innovation at the intersection of business, technology, and human needs. At Ford’s EVDD group, he leads cross-functional designers shaping the company’s digital product strategy to make mobility a fundamental right while advancing sustainability. His career includes inspiring new ways of working at Google, creating the award-winning Metro design system at Microsoft, and leading the invention of Amazon’s Echo Show, which defined a new multimodal product category.
Guided by a belief that innovation begins with people, Jae’s leadership style emphasizes curiosity, collaboration, and empowerment. He nurtures diverse teams of designers and technologists, ensuring they have the perspective and support to create products that serve humanity and improve the world at scale.
***
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Astro Teller & Ivo Stivoric: Why moonshots require unlearning everything you know (00:27:27)
This is a preview of a premium episode. To hear the full episode, head to our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/astro-teller-and-ivo-stivoric-why
When a company talks about taking a “moonshot,” it often ends up being something trivial: a new emoji keyboard, or delivering a pizza in less than 30 minutes.
But at X, the Moonshot Factory, which is part of Google, they’re tackling some of the world’s thorniest problems: sustainably feeding the world’s population, climate change, education, and much more.
Today we’re speaking with Astro Teller, Captain of Moonshots, and Ivo Stivoric, Vice President at X. Astro has a PhD in artificial intelligence from Carnegie Mellon and wrote a prophetic 1997 novel about AI called Exegesis. He's the grandson of Edward Teller of Manhattan Project fame, but his own legacy is built on creating protected spaces where multidisciplinary teams can tackle humanity's biggest challenges—from self-driving cars to internet access delivered by balloons.
Ivo leads a portfolio focused on climate, sustainability, and social justice. A designer by training who cut his teeth in the early days of wearable computing at Carnegie Mellon's Engineering Design Research Center, Ivo brings a unique perspective on bridging human needs with breakthrough technology. Together with Astro, he co-founded BodyMedia, one of the pioneering companies in wearable health monitors, which was later acquired by Jawbone.
We chat with Astro and Ivo about how they've maintained one of tech's longest creative partnerships, why moonshots require unlearning everything you know about building products, and how they're using their "moonshot factory" push the boundaries of what's possible when you combine emerging technology with empathy for human needs.
Links
https://x.company/projects/tidal/
https://x.company/moonshotpodcast/
***
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This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
Upgrade to paid
***
Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:
Saily: Saily solves the hassle of staying connected while traveling by offering affordable, data-only eSIM plans that activate seamlessly when you arrive—no physical SIM swap needed. Plus, it layers in built-in security features like ad blocking, web protection, and virtual location for safer browsing on the go.
Download their app on your phone and you can buy an eSIM before you fly so you’re connected the minute you land. And if you’re traveling between countries, you only need one eSIM. You can get a global or a regional plan and travel with the same eSIM plan.
Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code DESIGNBETTER at checkout. Download Saily app or go to https://saily.com/designbetter
Henry Modisett: Perplexity’s VP of Design on embracing ambiguity and leading with curiosity (00:47:27)
Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/henry-modisett
AI isn’t just another layer in our digital toolkit—it’s reshaping the tools themselves, and in the process, transforming how we work, think, and solve problems.
Henry Modisett, VP of Design at Perplexity, is in a unique position to challenge many of the norms that have shaped tech for some time now. Perplexity just released a beautiful new browser called Comet that puts AI at the heart of the user experience. We have been thoroughly impressed with it all ready.
As a designer with a computer science background, Henry takes a unique approach to his work. Rather than designing in Figma like most of us mortals, he and his team design in React, building working versions of interfaces so they can use it while they shape it.
Henry shares how his team approaches the design of AI-native products, and why traditional UX patterns often fall short in this new landscape. We explore the role of curiosity in AI interaction, how transparency and trust are earned (not assumed), and why embracing ambiguity might just be the most human-centered design move of all.
By the way, you may have heard that we just launched the Design Better Toolkit, a collection of resources we love and use regularly. The Toolkit gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
Perplexity just happens to be a part of this bundle. You’ll get 6 months free of Perplexity Pro (an $180 value), as well as credits and discounts on tools like Airtable, Read AI, and other tools, and courses like Prototyping with Cursor and more. To get access you’ll need to be a Design Better Premium member at the annual subscription level. Visit dbtr.co/toolkit to learn more.
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Elizabeth Lin: Rethinking design education in the age of AI (00:20:11)
This is a preview of a premium episode on Design Better. Head to our Substack to get access to the full episode: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/elizabeth-lin
Have you played around with Cursor? If not, it’s time. Designers with no coding skills are passing Cursor Figma files and getting working apps out the other side. And if you have no design, you can just prompt this AI powered development environment to get a solid prototype of your idea.
Elizabeth Lin, founder of Design is a Party, recognizes that Cursor is going to expand the capabilities of designers. She’s built a course that introduces designers to Cursor and challenges you to build while you design.
We talk with Elizabeth about how she's using AI tools like Cursor to help designers prototype faster than ever before, why she thinks now might be the perfect time to try something new in your career, and what's missing from traditional design education. Elizabeth also shares what she's learned about "vibe coding," why debugging is the hardest skill for new students to master, and how she's building a business around the idea that learning should feel more like a party than work.
By the way, you may have heard that we just launched the Design Better Toolkit, a collection of resources we love and use regularly. The Toolkit gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.
One of Elizabeth’s courses, Prototyping with Cursor, just happens to be a part of this bundle. You’ll get $100 off her course, as well as a $500 credit towards Airtable, discounts on Read.ai, Perplexity, Miro, and other tools, and discounts on other courses from platforms like ShiftNudge. To get access you’ll need to be a Design Better Premium member at the annual subscription level. Visit dbtr.co/toolkit to learn more.
Bio
Elizabeth is a design educator with 10 years of experience whose love for design began in the early internet days of Neopets, creating playful graphics and websites with tools like MS Paint. She went on to study computer science at UC Berkeley, where she discovered a community of design enthusiasts and began teaching her first course on Illustrator and Photoshop as a sophomore. That experience sparked a lasting passion for teaching, which she continued to pursue through workshops and courses during her time at Berkeley.
After graduating, Elizabeth worked as a product designer at education-focused companies like Khan Academy and Primer, designing tools for teachers and students while expanding her perspective on learning. In 2023, she founded Design is a Party, an alternative design school that reflects her playful yet rigorous approach to teaching. Since then, she has launched a two-course series on visual design, developed portfolio-building resources, and led workshops to help the next generation of designers grow their craft.
Nick Foster: Could, Should, Might, Don't—a new way to think about designing for the future (00:59:26)
Most designers are comfortable in the world of known problems—we talk to users, gather insights, iterate based on feedback. But what happens when you're designing for a future that doesn't exist yet? When you're creating products for people who haven't been born, or technologies that might not emerge for years?
Today's guest has spent decades designing for the future, a space where design specs are ambiguous at best. Nick Foster led design at Google X where he worked on over 200 moonshot projects, from flying machines to nuclear fusion.
Nick has written a provocative new book that provides helpful guidance on how we might approach designing for the unknown. In Could, Should, Might, Don't: How We Think About the Future, he argues that we've fallen into predictable patterns of thinking that are actually making us worse at anticipating what's coming next.
We chat with Nick about why most futures thinking falls into one of four problematic categories, and the importance of ethics in designing for the future. We also talk about the hidden dangers of "numeric fiction" and data-driven predictions, what he learned working with PhD scientists who had never met a designer, and why Silicon Valley's obsession with KPIs is killing long-term thinking.
Bio
Nick Foster RDI is a Futures Designer based in Oakland, California.
He has spent his career exploring the future for globally renowned technology companies including Apple, Google, Nokia, Sony and Dyson. As Head of Design at Google X, he led a team of designers, researchers and prototypers developing nascent technologies such as brain-controlled computer interfaces, intelligent robotics, stratospheric internet balloons and neighborhood-scale nuclear fusion.
Despite the ambitious nature of much of Nick’s work, he’s well known for his down-to-earth and occasionally irreverent approach to the future, and in 2013 he coined the term Future Mundane. In 2018, Fortune magazine described him as ‘one of the world’s foremost leaders in speculative design’ and in 2021 he was awarded the title Royal Designer for Industry - the highest accolade for a British designer - in recognition of his significant contributions to the discipline. He’s also an accomplished writer and public speaker, producing multiple books and sharing his thinking about the future with audiences across the globe.
***
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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
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***
Tim Brown: Allbirds co-founder on mission-driven design and entrepreneurship (00:22:27)
This is a preview of a premium episode. Head to Design Better to hear the whole thing: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/tim-brown
Sometimes your career takes an unexpected turn—and that pivot can lead to something bigger than you imagined.
Tim Brown, co-founder of Allbirds, has been there. After a stint as a professional soccer player, Tim found himself on a different path—one that led to creating a simple wool sneaker that would grow into a movement for sustainable fashion.
We spoke with Tim about how he and his co-founder used design thinking to tackle everything from material innovation to business strategy, the importance of being transparent about both successes and failures, and what it really takes to start a mission-driven company. Tim also shares how his athletic background shaped his approach to leadership and why having constraints can actually fuel creativity.
Bio
Tim is the co-founder of Allbirds. He is the creative vision behind the brand, with an eye for all things design. Prior to co-founding Allbirds in 2016, Tim was part of the New Zealand soccer team that reached the 2010 World Cup – a generational achievement for the nation.
***
Premium Episodes on Design Better
This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
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Upgrade to paid
***
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Matt Raw: Balancing legacy and innovation at The New York Times (00:46:49)
Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/matt-raw
Matt Raw, Interim VP of Design at The New York Times, and his team have a tough job. Their work is seen by millions every day who come to the Times website and apps for information they can trust, presented clearly, across platforms, striking a stylistic balance between tradition and innovation. Somehow they approach the pressure of their work with grace.
n this episode, we talk with Matt about what it means to design for a mission-driven organization in a time of profound technological and cultural change. Matt shares how his team is navigating the tension between tradition and evolution, how they balance experimentation with editorial integrity, and why even the smallest interface details can carry the weight of institutional trust.
We also explore how the Times is adapting to new reader habits, the impact of generative AI on journalism and design, and why listening deeply to colleagues and readers remains a superpower for their team.
If you missed it earlier this month, Matt also interviewed us for an AMA at the Times’ headquarters in Manhattan.
Also, stay tuned after our conversation with Matt (or listen to the embedded audio below) for a special with the Australian design agency Noize uses Wix Studio to create amazing sites for top brands.
Bio
Matt Raw is a product design leader with over 15 years of experience creating user-centered digital products and services. As interim Vice President of Product Design Culture and Operations at The New York Times, he helps product designers thrive, runs design operations, and oversees the shared design studio. He has built and led teams of designers, managers, and leaders who deliver exceptional work spanning strategy to execution. Raw also teaches advanced UX fundamentals to MFA students at the School of Visual Arts, focusing on insight-centered problem definition and rapid validation through lightweight prototyping. His mission is empowering product designers to craft meaningful experiences for millions of users worldwide.
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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.
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***
The Brief: Microscopes and telescopes (00:09:49)
Microscopes and telescopes
By Aarron Walter
A friend and former colleague called me recently to catch up and get my perspective on an important question. He leads a product team at a major tech company and the design team had just been moved under him.
He’s an exceptional product thinker with a sharp grasp of engineering systems and shipping processes. But managing designers? That was new territory.
“Where should design really fit in our workflow?” he asked.
What struck me most was that he asked at all.
Too often, when design moves under product in a re-org, it becomes a service function. Something to be brought in after the big decisions are made—to polish the edges, add the visuals, and make things look good. That, of course, sells the value of design short, and my friend sensed it. He didn’t want design to just support the work of engineers. He wanted it to play a part in shaping the product.
So I shared what I’ve seen in organizations where engineering and design truly thrive together: it starts with recognizing that engineers and designers bring fundamentally different perspectives to the table.
***
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https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/the-brief-microscopes-and-telescopes
Rhiannon Bell: Designing the future of search at Google (00:20:15)
This is a preview of one of our premium Design Better episodes. To listen to the whole episode, head over to our Substack and subscribe: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/rhiannon-bell
We all rely on search—sometimes dozens of times a day—to make sense of the world around us. But behind that simple white box is a vast, dynamic system that has to understand not just language, but intent, context, and trust.
In this episode, we talk with Rhiannon Bell, VP of User Experience for Google Search, about how they navigate the complexity of designing one of the most widely used products on the planet.
Rhi shares how their background in writing and storytelling shapes their approach to UX, why designing for information-seeking behavior is fundamentally different from transactional design, and how teams at Google are rethinking trust, transparency, and delight in an age of generative AI. We also dig into what it means to lead with curiosity, and how bringing a sense of play into product development can open up entirely new possibilities.
Bio
As the VP of UX for Google Search, Rhiannon Bell leads a team of talented Designers, Researchers and Content Strategists who are responsible for all of Google Search experiences. They have over 20 years experience in product development, working with diverse and global products such as NerdWallet, BBC, and Zynga.Rhiannon's mission is to build responsibly toward an AI-powered future, using user research, creative direction, and user-centric product development. They are passionate about pushing the boundaries of technology to solve user pain points, raising the quality bar on execution, and driving home the consumer-centric view within any product organization. They are also an active investor and advisor in the design and AI space, supporting visionaries who are shaping our world.
***
Premium Episodes on Design Better
This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:
You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.
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