Design Systems Podcast interviews industry leaders and product makers to share best practices and explore the areas where design and development come together.
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139. Why the Future of Digital Production Starts With Code, Not a Canvas (00:34:39)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. As AI compresses the distance between idea and execution, the abstractions that once made design tools necessary are becoming points of friction. In this conversation, Knapsack leaders Chris Strahl, Evan Lovely, and Robin Cannon make the case that the future of digital production starts in the medium products actually ship in, code. They unpack why design systems are infrastructure, not artifacts, how context becomes the critical input for enterprise A...
138. Scaling Inclusive Design: An Accessibility Conversation with Anna Thielke (00:24:54)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. How do teams turn accessibility from individual effort into system wide practice? Chris talks with Anna Thielke, founder and CEO of Mantis and Company, to find out. They explore why representation on system teams leads to better standards, how designing for the edges strengthens products for everyone, and what it takes for accessibility work to spread across large organizations in a sustainable way. Anna also shares how lived experience shapes her pers...
137. Why You Shouldn’t Aim for Perfect: Building Design Systems That Deliver Business Value with Noelle Lansford (00:44:45)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. If you’ve ever struggled to balance perfection with business reality, this episode is for you. In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, Chris Strahl talks with Noelle Lansford, founder of Shep, about why chasing the “perfect system” often breaks more than it fixes. Drawing on her experience across startups and Fortune 5 companies, Noelle argues that design systems succeed when they serve people and the business—not when they chase architectural p...
136. Are Design Systems Still for People? A Conversation with Elyse Holladay (00:45:32)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In this episode, Chris Strahl talks with Elyse Holladay—staff design engineer at Color Health and host of On Theme—about the evolution of design systems and how AI is reshaping the way we think about abstraction, collaboration, and contribution. They explore what it means to maintain relevance in a landscape where LLMs increasingly influence product development, and reflect on whether design systems are still for people—or for machines. Elyse shares a ...
135. The Infrastructure Behind Digital Production: A Conversation with Steve Dodier-Lazaro (00:36:38)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. Design systems aren’t just a UI toolkit—they’re the backbone of digital product creation and management. In this episode, engineer and researcher Steve Dodier-Lazaro joins Chris Strahl to unpack why treating design systems like standalone products is holding teams back. They explore what it really takes to scale product design and development in enterprise environments—from shared tooling and token standards to how AI and LLMs can bridge messy, real-wo...
134 Modernizing a Legend: Catherine Dubut Builds the Future at Ford Pro (00:30:33)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. What does it take to transform 121 years of automotive legacy into a modern digital ecosystem? Catherine Dubut, Director of Global UX Strategy at Ford Pro, joins Chris Strahl to share how her team is reengineering the organization’s fragmented product landscape into a scalable, unified digital assembly line. With over 80 legacy sites, 20+ global markets, and deeply siloed teams, the scale and complexity of Ford Pro’s challenge was immense. Catherine ex...
133. Garth Braithwaite on Design Tokens, Governance, and Scaling Spectrum at Adobe (00:59:34)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. The design token nerds are taking over the pod! In this episode, guest host Christopher Bloom sits down with Garth Braithwaite, Lead Senior Staff Design Engineer at Adobe, for a deep dive into the inner workings of Spectrum’s design tokens. Garth shares how Adobe manages the complexity of scaling a multi-platform design system, and how thoughtful collaboration across teams builds real value for users. They get into the weeds on cross-team communication...
132. The Evolution of Digital Production: TJ Pitre Talks Flash, Figma, and the Future of Dynamic Design (00:29:49)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In this episode, TJ Pitre, founder of South Left, joins the podcast to trace the real evolution of digital production — from the early days of Flash and Fireworks to today's dynamic, system-driven workflows. TJ shares his journey bridging design and development, reflects on the rise of modern tools like Figma, and explores the shift toward more connected, production-ready design. Along the way, he breaks down the growing role of the design engineer, th...
131. DSP Rewind | Rick Rodriguez on Building an Adaptable and Scalable Design system (00:31:59)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. This week, we're digging into the Design Systems Podcast archives. Guest host Richard Banfield, VP of Design Leadership at Knapsack, revisits a 2020 conversation between host Chris Strahl and Rick Rodriguez, then Head of Design Systems at Walmart Labs. Rick shares how his team developed Living Design, Walmart’s internal design system, to support both customer-facing and associate-facing digital products. The conversation explores what it takes to desig...
130. Jon Warden on How GSK Uses Design Systems to Balance Scale, Flexibility, and Innovation (00:41:08)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, guest host Andrew Rohman sits down with Jon Warden to explore how GSK leverages design systems to drive consistency, innovation, and efficiency across a highly complex global organization. With multiple brands, multi-product ecosystems, and diverse regional needs, GSK must balance scale and flexibility while embracing automation, AI, and modern workflows—all while keeping the customer experience at the cen...
129. DSP Mashup | The Future of AI and Digital Production (00:48:21)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, guest host Richard Banfield takes us on a journey through the intersection of artificial intelligence and design systems. We revisit some of the most compelling discussions featuring experts David Calleja, Nick Hahn, Ranjeet Tayi, and Kate Moran. Together, they unravel how AI is transforming the way digital products are designed and developed. From AI's potential as a creative partner to its role in automa...
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. in this episode Knapsack's VP of Design Leadership, Richard Banfield takes a look back at a conversation between Chris Strahl and Emily Campbell. They discuss the convergence of design and code, and what that actually looks like. They walk through what a designer role looks like in a modern digital product team and Emily explains her idea that design and development are the same. They just have different approaches to the same process or medium. Other...
127. Building a Unified Design System for Instacart’s Multi-Product Ecosystem: Lessons for Success from Miranda Bouck (00:31:46)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. Increasingly, design systems need to support multi-product ecosystems with a diverse array of consumers and stakeholders. This week, Chris Strahl sits down with Miranda Bouck from Instacart to explore the intricacies of managing a multi-faceted design system. Miranda delves into the challenges and strategies of balancing the diverse needs of consumer apps, internal apps, and enterprise retail partners, all while maintaining system flexibility and perfo...
126. Scaling Avalara's Design System to Support a Growth-By-Acquisition Strategy (00:26:06)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. Many enterprise organizations face the challenge of scaling their design systems as the scope of product support expands through adoption and acquisition. In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, host Chris Strahl speaks with Will Rodenbough, Senior UX Designer at Avalara, about the critical role of design systems in enabling scalability and supporting a growth-by-acquisition strategy. Key Topics Covered: Scaling Through Systems Thinking: How Ava...
125. Inside H-E-B’s Digital Transformation: Adriana Morales on Design Systems That Empower Teams (00:37:33)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In our first episode of 2025, Chris Strahl sits down with Adriana Morales, Design Principal at H-E-B, to explore the evolution, challenges, and triumphs of design systems in organizations at different stages of maturity. Adriana shares her journey from IBM to H-E-B, highlighting how each company’s unique financial priorities and cultural dynamics shape the mission and execution of their design systems. Together, they discuss the paradox of design syste...
124. From Ideas to Impact: Chris Strahl and Evan Lovely on Five Years of Design Systems Innovation (00:34:02)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In this special episode of the Design Systems Podcast, co-founders Chris Strahl and Evan Lovely celebrate five years of the podcast and reflect on their journey from agency work to building Knapsack. They discuss the evolution of design systems, lessons learned from working with global enterprise clients, and the importance of composability, constraints, and community in driving innovation. Enjoy anecdotes from their early days and a look ahead at the ...
123. Adoption, Efficiency, and Value: insights from KickstartDS’s Jonas Ulrich and Daniel Ley (00:27:57)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In this episode, Chris talks with Daniel Ley and Jonas Ulrich from KickstartDS, a framework designed to simplify design system creation and drive meaningful adoption. They dive deep into what adoption really means, moving beyond metrics like component coverage to focus on efficiency, team morale, and an iterative approach. Drawing on real-world examples like UNICEF Germany, they share how effective adoption strategies can reduce complexity, speed up de...
122. Creating Cohesion from Chaos: The Role of Language and System Design with Ben Callahan (00:44:37)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. Language shapes the way we think and structure the world we build. On this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, Chris Strahl sits down with Ben Callahan, co-founder of Sparkbox, to explore the critical role of language and communication in team dynamics, problem-solving, and system structures. Ben shares insights on how linguistic choices shape product creation and drive organization-wide cohesion. He argues that while common ground is essential, des...
121. The Intersection of Urban Planning and Design Systems: Insights from Andii Hei (00:32:04)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Explore the unique parallels between urban planning and design systems with Andii Hei. Discover how cities and digital landscapes share principles of structure, adaptability, and creative constraints. Andii offers insights into how these connections reveal new ways to think about system design, collaboration, and the evolution of digital experiences. Whether you're building cityscapes or digital ecosystems, this episode uncovers the essential blueprint ...
120. From Designer to Design System Leader: Insights from Allison Shaw's Career Journey (00:33:55)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. On today's episode of The Design Systems Podcast, Allison Shaw, Director of Design at Adobe, shares insights from her expansive journey in design systems. From her early days modernizing Yelp’s desktop experience to her pivotal roles at Zendesk and Adobe, Allison talks openly about transitioning from a designer IC role to management, the power of humility, and the importance of fostering strong mentor relationships. Check it out! View the transcript o...
119. Rethinking Design Consistency: Debating Tokens vs. Components with ADPs Alice Preisler (00:32:00)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Are components a necessary part of a design system? In this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, Alice Preisler, the Product Owner of Design System at ADP challenges the idea that all design systems start with a component library. Alice and host, Chris Strahl discuss what starting with documentation and design tokens instead of components might do for a design system and product teams. Alice shares her vision of using a linting tool to enforce design ...
118. Reusability, Collaboration, and Empathy: Catalina Manea on Bridging Design and Development to Build Applications with Design Systems" (00:25:34)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. On today's episode of the Design Systems Podcast, we hear from Catalina Manea, Senior Designer at Spelunk, about the crucial intersection of design and development. Catalina shares her journey from graphic design to product and systems design, providing insights into the importance of reusability, cross-functional collaboration, and empathy in building scalable and adaptable design systems. Catalina emphasizes that design systems go beyond UI and consi...
117. Why Kate Moran Thinks Humans Are Essential to the Future of Generative UI and AI. (00:42:45)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. What does the future of UX look like? In today's episode, our host, Chris Strahl, sits down with Kate Moran, the VP of Research and Content at Nielsen Norman Group. They explore the promise of hyper-personalized experiences, the challenges of resource limitations, and the innovative potential of AI in accelerating design processes. Kate touches on the balance between speed and risk when integrating AI into products, highlighting the significance of hum...
116. Designed for success: How Guy Segal Built a Design System that Product Teams Want to Use. (00:30:31)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. In this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, Chris Strahl welcomes Guy Segal, the director of digital ecosystem and design systems at Thomson Reuters. Guy shares his experience of building a design system that serves over 150+ brands and the importance of having a point of view when you are working to bring both quality and consistency to a large portfolio of products. From design system missionaries to trojan horses to carrots and sticks, Guy and Ch...
115. Design System Sources of Truth: Transparency and Collaboration with Dropbox’s Mark Shuster (00:29:46)
Send us feedback or episode suggestions. It’s all just opinions, man! In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, Mark Shuster talks about the shift away from enforcing strict guidelines through design systems towards enabling good design and production practices in a more transparent and collaborative way. Chris and Mark discuss different sources of truth within a design system, flexibility and iteration, and why composability is so important to the future of the product engineering...
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