What happens when life doesn’t go according to plan? In this award-winning podcast, cognitive scientist Dr. Maya Shankar explores how we experience change and strategies we can use to better navigate moments of upheaval.
Maya’s life took a dramatic turn when an injury ended her career as a violinist and inspired her to study the science of change.
Named Apple Podcasts’ Best Show of the Year, A Slight Change of Plans features deeply personal stories and scientific insights about who we are and who we become in the face of a big change.
Past guests include Kacey Musgraves, Brené Brown, Ruby Bridges, Amanda Knox, Adam Grant, Angela Duckworth and more.
Whether it’s a sudden pivot or a slow transformation, each episode reveals how change can give us an opportunity to reimagine who we are and unlock greater possibility.
You can follow Maya on instagram @DrMayaShankar and read her free newsletter at changewithmaya.com.
Get early, ad-free access to episodes of A Slight Change of Plans by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows.
Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkinSubscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plus
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Booklist awarded Maya’s upcoming book, The Other Side of Change, one of its coveted starred reviews, saying “It’s impossible not to be moved.” The Other Side of Change hits shelves on January 13th and is filled with a rare combination of scientific wisdom and powerful stories (not featured on this podcast!) that will help you enter 2026 with greater strength and optimism about the road ahead. ORDER The Other Side of Change TODAY for you or someone you love at the links below. Amazon: https://a.co/d/2o1QEM4 Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/a/2186/9780593713686See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
The People-Pleaser’s Recovery Guide (00:48:23)
Therapist Meg Josephson learned early on to put others’ needs before her own. It was a way for her to stay safe in a home that didn’t feel emotionally stable. But over time, she saw that her people-pleasing habits were eroding her sense of self, and straining the very relationships she was trying to protect. On today’s show, we explore how we can stop asking ourselves if other people are mad at us. Who can we become when we stop trying to please everyone else? If you liked this episode, you’ll want to check out our episode with Sunita Sah, called, “How To Say No.” Don’t forget to pre-order Maya’s book, “The Other Side of Change,” at changewithmaya.com/book.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Why It’s Never Too Late To Bet On Yourself (00:37:45)
After a turbulent adolescence and decades of reinvention, Zarna Garg found her voice somewhere she never expected: stand-up comedy. On today’s episode, she tells Maya why she believes courage is a skill you can learn, and how failure has been a key to her success on stage and off. Register for Maya’s virtual book event with Brene Brown at changewithmaya.com/launch. Spots are limited, and the deadline to sign up is December 14th. Don’t forget to pre-order Maya’s book, “The Other Side of Change,” at changewithmaya.com/book.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
How to Stay Hopeful (When It Feels Impossible) (00:38:56)
The world feels especially heavy these days, and it’s easy to feel cynical. So today, Maya is revisiting her conversation with psychologist Jamil Zaki, who offers an alternative to cynicism: a mindset he calls “hopeful skepticism.” Jamil explains why hopeful people are more resilient, more successful in accomplishing goals, and more willing to tackle societal problems head on. For even more from Jamil, check out our other episode with him: “How to Build Empathy and Avoid Burnout.” Don’t forget to pre-order Maya’s book, “The Other Side of Change,” at changewithmaya.com/book.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Malala, On Losing Herself (00:52:55)
It’s been more than a decade since Malala Yousafzai, then a 15-year-old student and advocate for girls education, survived an assassination attempt. Malala is 28 now, and she’s written an intimate new memoir called “Finding My Way,” revealing sides of her the world has never seen before. In today’s episode, Maya sits down with Malala to explore the tension that exists between the different versions of ourselves that we carry — who the world expects us to be, who our families raised us to be, and who we’re still in the process of becoming. Watch the full video version of this interview here: https://youtu.be/q3y_-BP2Rmk?si=gVYmk-eTIOMzLP-L Don’t forget to pre-order Maya’s book, “The Other Side of Change” at changewithmaya.com/book. “Finding My Way: A Memoir” is out now. You can find it wherever you buy books. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
What If Finding Community Wasn't So Hard? (00:45:29)
When Dr. Vivek Murthy first appeared on the show a few years back, he and Maya discussed the science of loneliness and its impact on our long term health. Now, the former U.S. Surgeon General is back to share simple, practical steps we can take to nurture more meaningful relationships—and why making even small changes can help us feel more connected. To hear Maya’s first conversation with Vivek Murthy, go to www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/a-slight-change-of-plans/the-science-of-loneliness. To watch the full video version of this interview, go to www.pushkin.fm/slightchange. For more from Vivek on how to create meaningful relationships in our lives, check out bit.ly/recipes4connection. Sign up for Maya's free newsletter here: changewithmaya.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Maya’s Launching Something New This Fall! (00:01:32)
In the run up to the release of her book, The Other Side of Change, Maya is starting an Ambassadors Program! Ambassadors will get access to all sorts of exclusive content – like a companion journal, an invitation to an intimate conversation with Maya, sneak peaks of the book, and more. Join a community of people who are passionate about change and want to help bring the book's message into the world. Sign up to be a Launch Ambassador at changewithmaya.com/join. Pre-order The Other Side of Change at changewithmaya.com/book.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
A Dream, Revisited (00:34:38)
Felicia Hsu grew up dreaming of becoming a doctor. Years of relentless dedication brought that dream within reach, but the toll it took left her wondering whether it was finally time to let it go. Have you had a slight change of plans you think we should know about? Send us a voice memo or an email at slightchange@pushkin.fm. Sign up for Maya's free newsletter here: changewithmaya.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
How To Talk About Hard Things (00:31:30)
Anna Sale is what you might call a professional “haver of hard conversations”. As the creator of the podcast “Death, Sex, & Money,” she’s spent years exploring the big questions and taboo topics people tend to shy away from. In this episode, Anna reflects on what she’s learned from all of those conversations – what’s helped, what hasn’t, and what she’s still figuring out.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Maya Is Chris Hemsworth’s Brain Coach! (00:01:59)
It’s not every day that Maya gets to coach a literal superhero…but tomorrow is that day! Tune in Friday, August 15, to see Maya featured as a neuroscience expert on Chris Hemsworth’s TV show, “Limitless: Live Better Now”. The series streams on Disney+ and Hulu. Curious to hear what it was like to film with Chris? Want to hear more about brain-boosting techniques? Join Maya for a behind-the-scenes Q&A on Instagram, this Friday, August 15 at 10:30am PST / 1:30 pm ET: www.instagram.com/drmayashankar.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
“I Feel So Wildly Lucky To Like Myself” (00:42:58)
Jessica Slice spent years working towards the day when she might actually like herself. If she just tried a little harder, achieved a little more, ate a little healthier, she thought she could earn her own self-respect. But after experiencing a sudden health crisis, Jessica was forced to put all that work on indefinite pause, and to remake her relationship with herself. On today’s show: who we can become when we let go of society’s standards of goodness. If you’re interested in learning more about the books that shaped Jessica’s thinking on difference, disability and mental health, check out the list below: “The Minority Body: A Theory of Disability” by Elizabeth Barnes “Brilliant Imperfection: Grappling with Cure” by Eli Clare “Exile and Pride” by Eli Clare “Feminist, Queer, Crip” by Alison Kafer “The Disabled God: Toward a Liberatory Theology of Disability” by Nancy Eiesland “Doing Harm: The Truth About How Bad Medicine and Lazy Science Leave Women Dismissed, Misdiagnosed, and Sick” Maya Dusenbery See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
How Jacinda Ardern Turned Self-Doubt into a Strength (01:00:16)
A few weeks ago, Maya joined former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern for a deeply reflective, intimate conversation in front of a live audience in San Francisco. The event was hosted by City Arts & Lectures, which hosts longform conversations with everyone from Bruce Springsteen, to Yuval Noah Harari —— onstage, and on their podcast. For more on City Arts & Lectures in person programming, visit www.cityarts.net. For more episodes of the City Arts & Lectures podcast, visit www.cityarts.net/audio.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
When Productivity Becomes Pathological (00:36:48)
These days, psychiatrist Judith Joseph knows joy. It’s the feeling she has after eating a delicious meal, celebrating the completion of a successful study in her lab, or watching her children play happily together. But just a few years ago, things looked different. Or rather, felt different. On the outside, everything looked as it should, and that was the problem. On today’s episode: the masks we wear to hide how we feel inside. If you or someone you love is struggling with depression, help is available. Call 1-800-950-6264 for free, confidential support and resources. More information available at nami.org.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sahil Bloom: Building A (Truly) Happy Life (00:33:46)
Sahil Bloom spent years working in the financial industry, putting in long hours and cashing big paychecks. But even though he’d found career success, he started to question whether the life he was building was actually what he wanted. On today’s show: hitting pause on the rat race and defining success on your own terms. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
One Trauma, Two Different Paths (00:37:30)
Tommy Caldwell’s experience being held captive in Kyrgyzstan unlocks a new state of mind that propels him to become the greatest big wall climber of all time. This conversation first aired in 2021. It is a companion episode to the one we ran last week about Beth Rodden’s experience of the same trip: “A Climber Loses Her Grip.” Same “Slight Change of Plans”, but wildly different reactions. You can check out Tommy’s memoir here, and Beth’s memoir here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
A Climber Loses Her Grip (00:44:20)
As a professional rock climber, Beth Rodden was taught to see pain as weakness. Fear and discomfort—mental and physical—were just things to be tolerated along the path to one record-breaking climbing feat after another. But when Beth was kidnapped on a climbing expedition in Kyrgyzstan, she had to confront the limits of that approach. On today's show: when the mindset that built you, starts to break you. Sign up for my free newsletter here: changewithmaya.com Get early, ad-free access to episodes of A Slight Change of Plans by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkinSubscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
BONUS: Boost Your Resilience At Work (00:12:21)
What can we do to cultivate more resilience at work? Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and host of The Unshakeables podcast, thinks about this question a lot. In today’s mini episode, Ben joins Maya to talk about the unique challenges faced by America’s small business owners—and the insights he shares can help anyone who wants to improve their well-being at work. This episode was made in partnership with Chase for Business. Listen to Ben’s podcast, The Unshakeables, here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Glennon Doyle on How to Be Broken (00:41:38)
For as long as writer Glennon Doyle can remember, she’s felt that something inside her was broken. 'Who am I really? What am I meant to do? And why does it feel so bad to be in this body?' These are the messy questions that Glennon has been grappling with for years. On today’s episode, Glennon, who hosts the wildly popular podcast We Can Do Hard Things, details her perpetual search for belonging, and shares the wisdom she's gained along the way. Glennon’s new book, also called We Can Do Hard Things, is out now. If you or someone you know is struggling with an eating disorder, visit the National Eating Disorders Association for support, resources, and treatment options: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/get-help/ Pre-order Maya's new book, The Other Side of Change: Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans at changewithmaya.com/book. Sign up for Maya's free newsletter here: changewithmaya.com. Get early, ad-free access to episodes of A Slight Change of Plans by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkinSubscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
The Two Words That Saved Mel Robbins (00:36:51)
If you've ever found yourself bending over backwards to meet other people’s expectations, or trying to control your loved ones’ emotions and behaviors, you are not alone. Bestselling author and podcast host Mel Robbins says the key is to stop micromanaging and start relaxing your grip. This conversation was an unexpected lesson in owning what’s yours and finding peace in ceding the rest. Pre-order The Other Side of Change: Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans at changewithmaya.com/book. Find The Mel Robbins Podcast (03:26) on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Find The Let Them Theory on Apple Books or wherever you get your audiobooks. (19:15) The Let Them Theory Sign up for my free newsletter here: changewithmaya.com Get early, ad-free access to episodes of A Slight Change of Plans by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkinSubscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Maya’s Exciting Announcement! (00:03:09)
I’ve been dying to share this news with you for quite some time, and I'm so happy that today I finally can. Pre-order “The Other Side of Change” now at changewithmaya.com/book. Read more about my journey to writing “The Other Side of Change” in People: https://people.com/maya-shankar-the-other-side-of-change-cover-reveal-exclusive-11716505See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Is Amanda Knox Finally Free? (00:46:38)
Amanda Knox has spent a decade trying to move on after being wrongfully convicted of murder. But over the years, one question lingered - why had the lead prosecutor in her case, Giuliano Mignini, been so determined to vilify her? Recently, she made the bold decision to reach out and ask him herself. On today's show: Amanda tells me about confronting the man who helped put her behind bars. Note: this is part two of a two-episode series we’re running this month about Amanda Knox. It was recorded in February 2025. Listen to part one here. Sign up for Maya’s newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/pushkin.fm/5yl2vd8wa6 Get early, ad-free access to episodes of A Slight Change of Plans by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkinSubscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Amanda Knox Knows What You’re Thinking (00:44:23)
Amanda Knox was just 20 years old when she was found guilty of a crime she did not commit — the murder of her roommate. Amanda spent four years in an Italian prison before she was finally exonerated and allowed to return to her life back home in the U.S. But she soon discovered that that life didn’t exist anymore. Note: this is part one of a two-episode series we’re running this month about Amanda Knox. It was recorded in 2021. Sign up for Maya’s new newsletter here. Get early, ad-free access to episodes of A Slight Change of Plans by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkinSubscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Extreme Makeover: Personality Edition (00:40:45)
Science writer Olga Khazan didn’t really like herself. A self-described neurotic, she tended to fixate on the negative. She assumed she’d always be this way, but then she came across research showing that personality is something you can change. In today's episode, Olga chronicles her year-long journey to "fix" her personality, and invites us to consider whether it’s truly possible to change who we are. Try the personality test that Olga talks about here. Sign up for Maya’s new newsletter, where she shares the results of *her* personality test (!) here. Get early, ad-free access to episodes of A Slight Change of Plans by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkinSubscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
How to Say No (00:43:17)
Have you ever found yourself saying yes to something you really didn’t want to do? Psychologist Sunita Sah is an expert on why it can be so difficult to say no, especially when our relationships or reputations are on the line. But there's good news! Defiance is actually a skill we can build if we understand the science behind it. Sunita shares a framework we can use in those challenging moments when we want to push back, but just aren’t sure how. Sign up for Maya’s new newsletter here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
The Case Against ‘Feeling Your Feelings’ (00:33:20)
Psychologist Ethan Kross wants us to stop thinking about our emotions as either good or bad. Emotions carry valuable information, he says, and they are signals that can help us change our behavior. As an expert in the science of emotions, Ethan shares strategies we can use to reign in our negative emotions when they become more harmful than helpful. And he debunks a popular myth that the only healthy way to move past your negative emotions is to persistently engage with them. Sign up for Maya’s newsletter here. Listen to our first conversation with Ethan Kross: The Science of Our Inner Voice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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