David interviews Blair about his recent article in which he explores how our businesses are not simple machines that can be tuned (or killed) with specific wrenches, but they are complex adaptive organisms that we need to understand differently. LINKS "Your Business Is Not a Machine" by Blair Enns for winwitoutpitching.com "Innofficiency in Your Agency" 2Bobs episode "Grow or Die?" 2Bobs episode
Oppositio Singularis: The Positioner's Folly (00:13:44)
David sees too many marketing agencies trying to attract new business by staking claims of specialness on things for which nobody is claiming the opposite, instead of building their positioning on uniquely defined expertise.
Dealing With the Ghosting Problem (00:24:19)
Are prospects not responding to your follow-up after you submit a proposal? Blair goes through what might be causing their lack of response and then provides three tools to address the ghosting problem. Links "Ghosted. Now What?" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com "The Power of a Metaphor" 2Bobs episode Blair's annual 100 Day Sprint post on LinkedIn
Defending the Castle When the Moats Are Drained (00:30:39)
One characteristic of our industry is disappearing moats. After a brief overview of the fourteen moats we've lost from 1965 to today, we'll look at what turf we really have left to defend and what the future will look like if we get this right. It'll be very different, and you'd better get ahead of it.
The Four Priorities of Winning New Business (00:27:32)
What do we do in those situations where we have to pitch? Blair simplifies some important principles from his books into a sequence of four precepts we can follow when the sales process doesn't progress like we'd hoped. Links "The Only New Business Indicator That Matters" 2Bobs episode "Assume an Advantaged Player" 2Bobs episode "Slapping Down Your Childlike Glee" 2Bobs episode
Understanding Earnouts (00:25:03)
If/when you sell your firm, it'll likely be the largest transaction of your life, and so it makes sense to understand it! In this episode David gives a crash course in everything earnouts. LINKS "Understanding Earnouts" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com
Grow or Die? (00:32:56)
Blair recognizes growth opportunities in every area of life and business, yet sees many people chasing metrics while unknowingly resisting genuine progress for various reasons. LINKS "Chief Growth Officer" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com
David recognizes that the fear of repeating ourselves in our client work is motivated by the right things: "am I delivering value?" LINKS "Repeating Yourself as an Expert" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com "Questions, Not Answers" 2Bobs episode
How to Get $500M to Build a Website (00:30:13)
Blair tells the story of recreation.gov and how its performance pay deal has been nothing but wins for every party involved, with plenty of lessons for buyers and sellers of all kinds of services. LINKS "Performance Pay Leads to a $500M Website" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com Recreation.gov
When a Key Employee Wants Equity (00:21:14)
David provides a framework for one of the most important conversations in a creative agency principal's life. LINKS "When A Key Employee Wants Equity" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com "Pros + Cons of Having a Partner" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com
SpamHack Your Way to Growth! (00:19:35)
Instead of railing against AI-generated spam, Blair decides to "get in on the action" with his brand new SpamHack AI Growth System™️ in this spoof episode.
What I Learned From Teaching Motorcycle Racing (00:25:04)
David recognizes more than a few parallels between his passion for motorcycle racing and the work being done in creative and marketing agencies. LINKS "What I Learned from the Race Track" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com
A DIY New Business System (00:33:23)
Instead of just relying on the talent of individual sales people, Blair recommends creative agencies identify and invest in six elements as a part of their organization's long-term sales system. LINKS "Critical Questions Your New Business Person Should Be Able to Answer" 2Bobs episode "How to Ask for Referrals" 2Bobs episode "CRM and the Mistakes to Avoid" 2Bobs episode "Who Should Set Prices?" 2Bobs episode "Mastering the Value Conversation" 2Bobs episode
Dealing With Today's Employee (00:24:44)
David finds the courage to address a topic he's been putting off for awhile, as he is seeing more agency principals struggling to maintain both healthy and productive work environments by leading the ongoing process of resolving tensions within their teams. LINKS "Adapting to a Modern Workforce" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com
There Is No Credential Meeting (00:30:32)
Instead of beginning the relationship with a prospective client by presenting a deck on why your agency is so amazing and why you should be invited to pitch, Blair encourages us to have the "Probative Conversation" from his Four Conversations sales model. LINKS "There Is No Credentials Meeting" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise" 2Bobs episode The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise book by Blair Enns
The Waterfall of Differentiation (00:27:21)
When it comes to positioning, David is still seeing creative firms failing to answer three essential questions in the proper sequence: category, specialization, and then secondary differentiators (or qualifying characteristics).
Always Be Anchoring (00:30:26)
Blair sees high price anchors everywhere—from buying a suit to ordering a burger. So what factors should creative firms keep in mind as they use anchoring in selling their service options? And when is the best time to present the anchor option within the sales conversation? Links "Anchor High" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com
What to Ask, Sign, and Share With a Potential Buyer (00:23:54)
Following up on the recent episode on whether you should be considering that offer to sell your firm, David provides four questions to get answered, two documents to sign, and a short list of materials that can help you take the lead in early conversations with a buyer. LINKS "Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer?"
The Power of a Metaphor (00:26:28)
The more unexpected the metaphor, the more information it carries. Blair has four less-obvious metaphors to give you access to entire playbooks in just four words when selling your expertise. LINKS "The Power of a Metaphor" written by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com
Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer? (00:24:39)
Ignoring any unexpected offers to buy your business that might come your way is not in your best interest. But neither is dating all opportunities in desperation. David has four things principals should consider, whether or not you are actively looking to sell your firm. Links "Should You Entertain That Offer?" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com 2Bobs London Meet-up on Thursday 8 May, 2025 at 2pm
When Your Clients Talk to Each Other (00:23:38)
Your clients are far more likely to talk to each other when you have vertical positioning. Blair has observed both good and bad things arising from this. Links "How to Ask for Referrals" 2Bobs episode
Facing an Existential Crisis? (00:28:43)
As we are hearing about more firms that are closing during these challenging times, David offers some guidance to help cut through the confusion when our worst fears in our business become reality. Links "Facing an Existential Crisis" article by David for punctuation.com Rory Sutherland's LinkedIn post David's LinkedIn post
Who Should Set Prices? (00:41:01)
As Blair continues to encourage expert practice owners to price the client and not the service, he and David discuss the pros and cons of four levels of pricing authority they should be thinking about within their firm, instead of just assuming pricing responsibility automatically defaults to a specific role or job title. Links "Who Should Set Prices In Your Firm?" written by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com
10 Reasons a Buyer Might Want Your Firm (00:32:41)
David thinks principals should build their firms as if they were going to sell it while Blair's advice is to run it as if you'll never sell it. Being aware of options as your firm matures can give you the leverage you might need in negotiations. Links "Ten Reasons Firms Are Bought" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com
To Standardize or Customize (00:35:31)
Through the process of writing his latest book, Blair's thinking has evolved on whether or not firms should resist the urge to productize their services as they work to creatively meet the unique needs of each client.
