Learn from procurement experts. Host Philip Ideson talks with thought leaders who share the trends, strategies and tactics that you can lever to elevate the role of procurement - and your career.
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846: Building Agility Through Emergency Procurement Readiness W/ Rick Bond and Tammy Rimes (00:40:43)
"The first time that you speak with a supplier shouldn't be in a time of crisis. Our best customers work with us regularly, and we're constantly hearing from them." - Rick Bond, Chief Revenue Officer, Safeware When a crisis hits, procurement must move at lightning speed… but without cutting corners. How do public agencies build systems that are nimble, compliant, and ready for anything? The answer to that question lies in proactive preparation, robust cooperative agreements, and the partnerships that power an effective emergency response. In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Tammy Rimes, Executive Director of National Cooperative Procurement Partners, and Rick Bond, Safeware's Chief Revenue Officer. Together, they share what really happens behind the scenes when disaster strikes, and how contract strategies and supplier relationships can turn from routine to lifesaving overnight. They also examine hard lessons learned from the pandemic, the critical role of due diligence, and why warehousing strategies are making a comeback. From practical war stories to high-level frameworks, this episode is a playbook for anyone navigating risk and rapid response. In this episode, Tammy and Rick discuss how to: Create ready-to-launch emergency contracts before you need them Run fast but thorough due diligence, even with "easy" agreements Build supplier relationships that go beyond the transaction Balance just-in-time strategies with smart warehousing investments Hold both parties accountable for resilience, not just price Links: Executive Briefing: Cooperative Procurement as a Tool for Emergency Preparedness Tammy Rimes on LinkedIn Rick Bond on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 24: Phil-out Season Finale: A Procurement Roast With Purpose (00:49:28)
After 23 episodes of dissecting procurement's incentive flaws, behavioral blind spots, and structural contradictions, the "Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement" podcast team closes season one with something different: reflection, humor, a little chaos, and a first look at what comes next. In this episode, Rich Ham seizes the mic for a surprise "hostile takeover," pulling Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner into a rapid-fire look back at the most memorable moments of the season. What follows is part game show, part roast, and part highlight reel. In short, the perfect way to close a project built on saying the quiet parts out loud. Rich counts down his "top seven" insights from guests like Martin Chilcott, Thomas Udesen, Kate Vitasek, and Omid Ghamami, and the topics they discussed, from decarbonization realities to incentive design failures, from short-termism to purpose-driven procurement. The list captures what this season repeatedly revealed: procurement isn't held back by a lack of talent or ambition, but by systems and incentives that don't reflect the impact leaders know they can deliver. This episode isn't just a retrospective. It also marks the transition from discovery to design. After months of interviews, research, and internal debate, the team announces what's next: The Buylaws – a set of guiding principles for a healthier, more purposeful procurement incentive system. Early 2026 will bring a new mini-series dedicated to unpacking each one of these recommendations. As we've learned, procurement's potential is enormous, but potential becomes purpose only when incentives, behavior, and business outcomes finally align. Links: Rich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com
845: Inside the AI Foundation Behind Next-Gen Procurement W/ Fang Chang (00:33:03)
"If you don't go on the journey, you risk being left behind. The key is to try, learn, and apply AI in a way that creates real value." - Fang Chang, EVP and Chief Product Officer at SAP AI isn't just another feature on your tech checklist. It's changing the way procurement teams deliver impact… but only for those bold enough to rethink from the ground up. In this podcast episode, host Philip Ideson speaks with Fang Chang, EVP and Chief Product Officer at SAP, who shares what it looks like to rebuild an established platform like Ariba on a true AI foundation. Fang's team didn't just layer new tech onto old workflows; they tore everything down and rebuilt with AI at the core. If you've ever asked whether your team should wait for the "next" wave of AI innovation or start learning by doing, this conversation is a must-listen. Fang walks through technical choices, balancing agility with reliability, and what an AI-powered procurement experience now enables for the business. In this episode, Fang discusses: Why simply layering AI onto legacy tools leaves value on the table How to decide where AI creates business outcomes… and where it doesn't What real agility looks like in a fast-evolving AI landscape How contextual "insights to action" bring value at every step The new balance of human oversight with AI-driven workflows Links: Fang Chang on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 23: The Phil-Ins: The Procurement Performance Paradox (00:35:15)
After nearly a year of exploring procurement's incentive paradox from every angle, Philip Ideson, Rich Ham, and Kelly Barner reconvene to connect the dots between three of the series' most thought-provoking guests: Jason Brown, David Loseby, and Omid Ghamami. Each offered a distinct lens on the same fundamental question: What does performance really mean in procurement today? Jason Brown framed incentives as an operating system: a structure that shapes behavior and defines what purpose looks like in practice. David Loseby reminded us that real change starts with understanding people, not just systems. And Omid Ghamami challenged procurement to stop claiming victory at contract signature and start measuring success by real-world outcomes actually achieved. As the co-hosts unpack these different takes on procurement performance, they uncover a unifying truth: procurement's metrics may have been right for their time, but the time has changed. Savings-driven scorecards and transactional incentives no longer fit a function expected to deliver innovation, resilience, and strategic value. The discussion also looks ahead to what comes next as the co-hosts think about how AI reshapes the function, causing headcounts to shrink and expectations to rise. Can procurement redefine its purpose before automation defines it for them? The answer, they argue, lies in alignment: between incentives and impact, between humans and technology, and between what we buy and what we're genuinely trying to achieve. Links: Rich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com
844: Contracting for Speed: How Orchestration Empowers Procurement W/ Clare Cassano and Toby Laforest (00:37:59)
"Your contracts are your source of truth. You should have a tool that can go through the contracts and help you understand the impact and make an assessment, all in one place." -Toby Laforest, Senior Director PMM - Market Insights and Solutions at Ironclad Procurement leaders can no longer afford to wait for requests to land in their inbox. Facing regulatory change, market volatility, and growing demand for business partnership, some organizations are reimagining their procurement operating models and putting technology and process both front and center. In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Clare Cassano, Head of Procurement Strategy & Execution at Invesco, and Toby LaForest from Ironclad, share how Invesco tackled the shift from reactive service to proactive business enablement. They discuss the tough choices behind their technology stack, the reality of orchestration layers, and why "best fit" often wins over "best-in-class" for their unique needs. Listen in for practical lessons on realigning talent, building true contract intelligence, and future-proofing your procurement process with an eye toward AI and automation. In this episode, Clare and Toby discuss: How AI-enabled contract management can deliver real-time contract insights, not just document storage Honest advice about choosing best fit tech over one-size-fits-all suites Future opportunities (and things to watch out for) related to agentic AI in procurement Links: Toby Laforest on LinkedIn Clare Cassano on LinkedIn From Reactive to Strategic: Transforming Procurement Through Contract Intelligence Contracting for Speed: How Orchestration Empowers Procurement Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
"Taking the time to get input, to get the feedback and listen to the needs might add a few weeks up front, but ultimately, you're going to have a better, stronger solution and support and alignment." - Jesse Jacoby, Founder and Managing Principal, Emergent, LLC Procurement and business leaders face a tangled web: legacy systems, evolving digital capabilities, and rising pressure to do more with less. How do you design an operating model that truly enables transformation without adding more complexity? In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Jesse Jacoby, Founder and Managing Principal at Emergent LLC. Jesse's experience guiding Fortune 500 organizations through high-stakes change gives him a practical, people-focused outlook on what really makes business transformation work. In this episode, Philip and Jesse explore how operating models can either help or hinder procurement, why quick fixes rarely stick, and how to leverage change management and AI for meaningful, lasting results. Jesse's insights on avoiding common mistakes and building "muscle memory" for change are a must-hear for anyone stepping into (or leading) transformation. In this episode, Jesse discusses how to: See operating models as interconnected "super systems" rather than isolated processes Identify and untangle legacy complexity before making changes Make the case for change both rationally and emotionally Use AI to augment – not replace – human decision-making Build resilience with ongoing, bite-sized upskilling programs Links: Jesse Jacoby on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
843: The Future Is Frictionless: Simplifying Procurement with Tech and Trust W/ Todd Heimes (00:33:00)
"We want our customers to be able to put their own internal procurement rules into our Amazon Business marketplace, so they can feel secure and still get that great experience." - Todd Heimes, Vice President and General Manager, Amazon Business Worldwide Right now, procurement leaders are balancing pressure to deliver savings, manage risk, and remove barriers for business users. As organizations get more complex, the need for connected digital procurement – and real-time, actionable insights – makes all the difference. In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Todd Heimes, Vice President and General Manager of Amazon Business Worldwide. With over two decades at Amazon, Todd shares how the team is tackling tail spend, embedding compliance, and rolling out new analytics and AI-driven tools designed for modern enterprise needs. They go beyond just digital catalogs: this is about building a procurement ecosystem that works for both CPOs and everyday users. This conversation is an inside look at how Amazon Business is helping procurement teams automate the busywork, drive transparency, and support smarter, decentralized decision-making. In this episode, Todd discusses: How to build digital procurement that fits your tech stack, not works against it Reducing rogue spend while making buying easier for users Using guided buying to set rules and drive compliance invisibly Turning analytics and AI into real actions, not just reporting Links: Todd Heimes on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 22: Challenging Procurement's Most Comfortable (Bad) Habits (00:37:08)
Procurement's problem isn't speed. It's form. They've gotten great at automating and accelerating weak processes while quietly rewarding the "good contract, bad deal" mentality that ultimately undercuts their own efforts. In this podcast episode of "Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement," Omid Ghamami, president of the Procurement and Supply Chain Management Institute and former Intel purchasing operations leader, joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to challenge procurement's most comfortable (bad) habits. He argues that the function claims victory at signature, books "savings" that never actually hit the P&L, and then moves on to the next thing while suppliers are left to harvest margin in the years that follow. Omid also goes after the most likely root causes of all these bad habits: procurement lets business units fixate on what they want to buy instead of what they need to accomplish. That framing hardwires cost into scopes through custom specs, gold-plating, and activity-based requirements. The cure is outcome design and total cost discipline up front, informed by external references, public contracts, internal history, and supplier knowledge. Pay now or pay later… and most teams pay later. Procurement needs to stop rewarding the 'heroes' who rush in to fix broken deals instead of the leaders who design processes that prevent fires in the first place. As Omid puts it, "We don't reward Smokey the Bear. We reward the firefighters." If incentives continue to glorify this kind of firefighting, the flames will keep coming. But when procurement starts recognizing prevention as performance, they will finally become the quiet force that keeps value – and trust – intact.
"If your only role is cost management and processes, that's scary to me. The value of procurement is so much more than that." – Etosha Thurman, Chief Marketing Officer, Finance and Spend Management at SAP AI is rapidly changing procurement's mandate and the expectations that business leaders now have. Technology is no longer just digitizing processes; it's opening the door to new operating models and deeper business impact. To thrive, procurement teams must deliver far more than savings. They must bring innovation, resilience, and data-driven influence to the table. In this episode, Philip Ideson welcomes Etosha Thurman, Chief Marketing Officer, Finance and Spend Management at SAP. Etosha's career spans sourcing at P&G to leading finance and procurement solutions at SAP. She shares stories and hard-earned insights on how AI is reshaping procurement, what it means for team structure, and why soft skills matter more than ever. Whether you're exploring practical use cases for AI or looking to reposition procurement as a strategic partner, Etosha offers advice you won't hear elsewhere. She also dives into driving internal investment and how procurement leaders can tell a more powerful story about their work. In this episode, Etosha explores how to: Identify which procurement skills are critical and which may be automated Rethink your operating model to match AI-enabled workflows Secure buy-in by linking procurement to business growth and resilience Turn data and technology investments into lasting business value Build a stronger brand and tell your procurement story for greater influence Links: Etosha Thurman on LinkedIn Learn more about SAP's Spend Management software Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
839: Building Data-Driven Procurement at Scale W/ Adrian Vicol (00:36:33)
"The value you bring as a procurement function has transcended being a cost saver. They are now a discussion partner with other functions and bring value in the form of intelligence." - Adrian Vicol, Data Strategy Lead & Data Architect, Siemens Energy Procurement leaders are facing more complex questions about data than ever before. As organizations move toward AI and automation, the need for clean, reliable, and actionable data is skyrocketing – but most teams are still wrestling with legacy challenges and data silos. Getting this right is no longer optional; it's becoming mission-critical. In this special episode, recorded on-site at ProcureTEX in London, host Philip Ideson speaks with Adrian Vicol, Data Strategy Lead at Siemens Energy. Philip was there at the invitation of Beroe to speak with some of their customers about turning data into actionable insights. Adrian shares a no-nonsense perspective on what it really takes to close the data-to-action gap for procurement. You'll hear firsthand how Siemens Energy is building a strong data foundation, implementing practical governance, and reshaping the way their procurement teams deliver value across the business. In this episode, Adrian discusses how to: Define a clear North Star for procurement data strategy and automation Structure strong data governance with business and technical roles Approach legacy data cleanup pragmatically to build trust in analytics Integrate internal and external data for real-time insights Engage procurement professionals to share expertise and drive adoption Links: Adrian Vicol on LinkedIn AOP Provider Directory: Beroe Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
840: Why Data Literacy Matters More Than Ever in Procurement W/ Satvinder Panesar (00:27:34)
"The value isn't in giving them the coffee beans and hoping they take that away and make a cup of coffee – what they need is a drink. So instead of giving them the data, do the extra steps and pull out the insights for them." - Satvinder Panesar, Data and Analytics Strategy Director, AstraZeneca Procurement leaders are surrounded by data, but turning numbers into true business impact is a new kind of challenge. As AI and analytics tools promise even more information, the real differentiator is knowing how to interpret, validate, and act on those outputs… before your competitors do. Satvinder Panesar, Data and Analytics Strategy Director at AstraZeneca, joined Philip Ideson at ProcureTEX in London. Philip was there at the invitation of Beroe to speak with some of their customers about turning data into actionable insights. In this conversation, Sat breaks down the evolution of procurement analytics, explains why data literacy is a must-have skill, and points out how any leader or team can begin building those muscles, starting with the tools they already have. Expect a practical, honest conversation about the skills gap, the dangers of outsourcing data thinking, and how procurement teams can take charge in a world of increasingly complex analytics: Why "insights" matter more than raw data in procurement How to bridge gaps between data, category, and analytics teams Practical first steps to improve procurement data literacy What AI can (and can't) do for procurement professionals Links: Satvinder Panesar on LinkedIn AOP Provider Directory: Beroe Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 21: Planning for People: Behavioral Architecture with David Loseby (00:39:35)
Procurement's toughest problems rarely come from spreadsheets or contracts. They come from people. In this episode of "Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement," David Loseby – professor, former CPO, and self-described "pracademic" – joins Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to explore why procurement's incentive systems often fail not because they're wrong on paper, but because they ignore how people actually think and act. Unfortunately, he says, most systems are designed for tidy models, not messy human behavior. Drawing on behavioral science and front-line experience, David introduces the idea of "behavioral architecture," a practical approach to shaping decisions by understanding how different audiences think, decide, and act. Finance wants the spreadsheet. Marketing wants the story. The CEO wants 30 seconds and a decision. A single, one-size-fits-all KPI (which we know is usually "savings") can't carry that load, and when it tries, it often drives the wrong behaviors. Instead, David makes the case for incentives that create shared ownership of outcomes across functions. He walks through a concrete example of shifting an energy "re-tender" into an enterprise-wide consumption program that improved P&L results through local engagement, gamification, and rapid payback actions – all proof that when the metric matches the mission, the business moves. He then applies the same logic to sustainability, customer experience, and resilience, showing how to frame the same initiative in different "languages" across the business without diluting the goal. David also offers actionable guidance: build balanced scorecards that include the business's priorities (not only procurement's), tie a portion of bonuses to stakeholder metrics, and tailor communications so each audience sees their value in the work. It's a call to action for procurement that may be uncomfortable, but it's exactly what they need to hear: if you want purposeful outcomes, you have to design for human behavior, not inhuman systems and processes. Links: David Loseby on LinkedIn Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com
838: Protecting Competition: Inside the DOJ's Fight Against Procurement Collusion (00:42:55)
"Fraudulent conduct robs the government – at all levels, local, state, or federal – of the benefit of competition. Competition is free and open; it is the Magna Carta of the American economic system, and robbing the government of that benefit is inherently wrongful." Public sector procurement faces mounting challenges, not least of which is the threat of collusion and fraud that quietly erodes budgets and public trust. The Department of Justice's Procurement Collusion Strike Force is taking this seriously, with a coordinated and data-driven approach to cracking down on anticompetitive conduct at all levels. In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Daniel Glad, Director of the Procurement Collusion Strike Force at the DOJ, who walks listeners through the reality of prosecuting bid rigging and price fixing in public contracts. Daniel shares compelling stories, actionable red flags, and new tools (like the groundbreaking whistleblower reward program) that empower honest players to speak up. Learn what triggers a federal investigation, which spend categories are especially vulnerable, and why the risks (and penalties) for collusion have never been higher. In this episode, Daniel discusses ways to: Identify which purchasing patterns often attract collusive behavior Detect early warning signs that suggest fraudulent bidding Leverage whistleblower programs to protect your organization and career Understand how technology and data analytics are changing enforcement Prepare for the scrutiny of the DOJ's proactive investigative methods Links: Daniel Glad on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
837: Mastering Influence: Procurement's Internal and External Edge W/ Giuseppe Conti (00:30:59)
"Too many procurement professionals have developed a push energy. If you take that same approach with internal stakeholders, it won't work. We need to develop pull energy — asking questions, listening, and creating a shared vision." - Giuseppe Conti, Professor, Author of Negotiation + Influence = Success: Quick Lessons to Help You Win in Corporate Life Procurement leaders know how much the field has changed, but the biggest barriers often come from within. As procurement's role expands, it has become essential to influence internally, manage expectations, and go beyond data-driven persuasion. In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Giuseppe Conti, a seasoned procurement executive turned business school professor. Giuseppe reveals why internal negotiation is so much tougher than dealing with suppliers, and offers strategies to shift procurement teams from "push" to "pull" influence. If your team's technical skills are strong, but your impact could be greater, this is a must-listen. Giuseppe's practical tools – like a 20-minute, one-page prep template and real-world active listening techniques – will give any procurement leader an edge. In this episode, Giuseppe explains how to: Diagnose and close the gap between perceived and actual listening skills Move from "push energy" to "pull energy" for genuine, lasting influence Set realistic internal stakeholder expectations and avoid common missteps Balance data with emotional intelligence to drive decisions Links: Giuseppe Conti on LinkedIn Negotiation + Influence = Success: Quick Lessons to Help You Win in Corporate Life by Giuseppe Conti Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 20: Inventive Incentives: Jason Brown on Procurement Incentive Structures (00:35:34)
Procurement doesn't just have a measurement problem. It has a motivation problem. Behind every misaligned target, every "savings" claim, and every missed opportunity is the same invisible culprit: incentives that quietly tell people to do the wrong things well. In this episode of Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement, Jason Brown, accounting professor at Indiana University and longtime corporate incentives expert, joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to expose how organizational reward systems shape behavior far more powerfully than strategy or mission statements ever could. He explains why even the most principled teams end up chasing metrics that distort procurement's purpose, and why rethinking incentive design may be the key to unlocking true business alignment. Drawing from decades of academic research and corporate consulting, Jason unpacks the subtle ways procurement incentives drift off course: how bonus structures reward volume over value, how finance and procurement end up speaking different dialects of "performance," and how organizations confuse compliance with contribution. He also brings attention to the rare examples of companies that have broken these patterns by tying procurement's rewards directly to shared outcomes that improve EBITDA, resilience, and stakeholder trust. This conversation challenges a fundamental assumption: can procurement ever be purposeful if its people are rewarded for something other than real impact? As Jason argues, until incentives reflect what actually matters to the business and society, procurement will remain stuck in a cycle of performative alignment where everyone looks busy but the enterprise stands still. According to Jason, the truth may be uncomfortable, but it's exactly what procurement needs to hear. Incentive design isn't a soft topic or a side project. It's the operating system of purposeful procurement, and it's long overdue for an upgrade. Links: Jason Brown on LinkedInRich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com
836: Inside Next-Gen SAP Ariba: Rebuilding Procurement for the AI Era W/ Baber Farooq (00:30:08)
"Everyone keeps talking about AI just for the sake of AI, but, ultimately, the only thing that matters is the outcome you can achieve." - Baber Farooq, Senior Vice President, Market Strategy, Procurement Solutions at SAP Procurement leaders have long felt the pinch: rising expectations, tight budgets, and platforms that struggle to keep up with user expectations. As AI shifts from a buzzword to true capability, procurement needs to rethink what they need from their core procurement suite. What will it take to move from incremental change to a genuine step-change in productivity? In this episode, Baber Farooq, Senior Vice President, Market Strategy, Procurement Solutions at SAP, discusses the future of SAP Ariba and what "next-gen" truly means for procurement. To do this, Baber draws back the curtain on SAP's rethink of Ariba, including why incremental AI add-ons just weren't enough, and how his team approached trust, transparency, and a seamless transition for current users. In this episode, Baber speaks about: Reimagining procurement technology with AI as a core capability, not a bolt-on Why data quality and structure are critical to enabling reliable AI outcomes Concrete examples of how generative AI changes real user workflows and decision-making Links: Baber Farooq on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
835: "We Win" Relationships: A Playbook for Procurement Value W/ Neji Isaac (00:28:22)
"There is no stagnancy in a supply relationship. Continuous improvement is the basis for that." - Neji Isaac, Global Category Manager, NOVA Chemicals Procurement often measures success in cost savings and contract terms, but today's business environment demands more. As supplier markets consolidate and customer needs shift, procurement leaders must find new ways to bring value to the business, especially in categories that seem stagnant or constrained. In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Neji Isaac, Global Category Manager at NOVA Chemicals, shares a real-world case study that pushed the boundaries of traditional supplier relationships. Drawing on his global experience and recent doctoral research, Neji explains how identifying overlooked opportunities and challenging old assumptions can unlock efficiency and drive unexpected value. Whether you're facing a "take-it-or-leave-it" supplier market or searching for fresh levers to pull, Neji offers pragmatic strategies to reflect on. In this episode, Neji discusses: Rethinking supplier relationships in long-standing, strategic categories How to recognize and act on cultural and regional differences in supply approaches Turning overlooked assets (like spare land) into value-adding levers Why the "we win" approach beats traditional win-win thinking Ways to uncover what truly matters to your suppliers Links: Neji Isaac on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 19: The Phil-Ins: Common Sense and Clunky Sports References (00:33:08)
In this Phil-Ins episode of "Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement," Philip Ideson, Rich Ham, and Kelly Barner reflect on their conversations with Bayer CPO Thomas Udesen, franchise procurement leader Kristine Morton, and procurement entrepreneur Jason Busch. Despite differences in scope, scale, and sector, the through-line is unmistakable: common sense. For example, Thomas showed how Bayer abandoned "pointless" savings metrics in favor of measures that connect directly to business outcomes, while Kristine reminded us that for franchisees, if it doesn't hit the P&L, it didn't happen. And Jason revealed how AI employees could finally make real-time validation and continuous monitoring of results possible at scale. Taken together, these stories underscore procurement's most pressing challenge: leaving behind the dysfunctional obsession with "claimed savings" and building incentive systems that reward real impact. Rich, Phil, and Kelly also step back to examine procurement's sense of alignment (or detachment?) from the wider business. Kelly shares vivid experiences from her own practitioner days, contrasting the urgency of grocery logistics with the abstraction of office supplies. Phil cautions against "procurement blinkers," reminding us that silos plague every function, not just ours. And Rich argues that measuring against EBITDA – profits, not projections – may finally put procurement "on the pitch" with their teammates. This recap sets the stage for the next phase of the series: designing incentive structures that actually work. Because if procurement doesn't align with business value, AI vendors may sell that value straight to the C-suite. Links: Rich Ham on LinkedInLearn more at FineTuneUs.com
834: Rewiring Operating Models for an Unpredictable Future W/ Darshan Deshmukh (00:52:24)
"Play the long game, avoid myopic thinking and approaches to solve immediate problems as much as you can, and treat your suppliers as your customers or clients." – Darshan Deshmukh, President at ProcureAbility Procurement leaders are facing unparalleled uncertainty – trade wars, shifting regulations, and headlines that change overnight. Pressure is mounting to build more resilient, agile supply chains, but most organizations are battling change fatigue as well as a need to redefine value. Procurement has to rewire their operating model for a future where disruption is the norm. In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner are joined by Darshan Deshmukh, President at ProcureAbility. Darshan shares real-world stories about how teams are grappling with global risk and why some are seeing volatility as an engine for growth, while others are retrenching. The conversation addresses how CPOs can actively manage optionality in their supply chains, and how procurement leaders can spot – and address – risk fatigue in their teams. If you want to understand what it means to create a cost-effective and resilient, opportunity-ready supply chain, this episode gives you the roadmap. In this episode, Darshan discusses how to: Adapt your approach for regional differences in geopolitical risk Invest in supply chain optionality, even if it adds time and/or cost Transition from transactional work to collaborative, strategic relationship building Use data and human judgment to separate real risks from noise Links: Darshan Deshmukh on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube Overcoming Procurement's Fear of AI with ProcureAbility
833: The Polycrisis Playbook: How Procurement Can Lead Through Turbulence W/ Gordon Donovan (00:43:14)
"We're in the business of change – selling change and then delivering it." - Gordon Donovan, Vice President Research - Procurement & External Workforce, SAP In an era of overlapping crises, procurement faces fast-evolving challenges… and opportunities. Senior leaders are tasked with not only keeping the engine running but also building resilient, future-facing teams that thrive in complexity. The recently published SAP Economist Impact research report, "The Resilient Edge: Procurement in an Era of Polycrisis," provides a data-driven lens on what the next three to five years may hold, especially as outsourcing, skills, and technology reshape operating models. To dig into this new research, Philip Ideson welcomes Gordon Donovan, Vice President Research - Procurement & External Workforce at SAP, back to the show. Gordon combs through insights on what is driving procurement decision-making, current confidence in category management, and the practical implications of surging contingent workforce and outsourcing activity. Whether you want to understand why risk management is lagging, how AI will drive operating model transformation, or where procurement should focus next, Gordon brings both the latest data and his own hard-won advice for CPOs. In this episode, Gordon discusses how this latest research from SAP can help procurement: Identify how leaders' priorities are aligning for the first time in four years Rethink the value proposition beyond cost savings and communicate it upstream Advance risk management beyond basic compliance, especially in category strategies Harness outsourcing and the contingent workforce as proactive transformation levers Prioritize the right skills, even those that rarely make the official list Links Gordon Donovan on LinkedIn Procurement's Path Through an Era of Polycrisis Visit the SAP Website Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 18: It's Getting Real: AI, Procurement, and the End of Savings Theater with Jason Busch (00:41:24)
"We can all claim savings without necessarily achieving the result." This stark observation from Jason Busch sums up decades of dysfunction in how procurement measures their impact and why AI may finally force a (much-needed) reckoning with reality. In this episode of "Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement," Jason joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to explore how artificial intelligence might finally solve procurement's validation problem… but only if organizations abandon their addiction to "claiming savings" and start measuring what actually matters: EBITDA. As a co-founder of FreeMarkets and a founder of Spend Matters, Jason has witnessed 25 years of procurement's evolution from the inside, and he's not pulling any punches. Instead, he offers a radical proposition: procurement should function as economic "detectives" gathering evidence of spend crimes, then "prosecutors" holding suppliers accountable based on that evidence. The technology finally exists to make this possible, but it will require procurement to abandon the comfortable fiction of projected savings in favor of the uncomfortable truth of EBITDA impact. The implications of this approach extend beyond individual organizations. Jason frames procurement's societal purpose as "public defenders against rampant cost escalation," suggesting that when buyer-side flaws enable seller-side exploitation, the ultimate losers are consumers who absorb these costs through higher prices. According to Jason, the question isn't whether technology will transform procurement… It's whether procurement will transform themselves enough to leverage that technology purposefully and for the good of the business. Links: Jason Busch on LinkedIn Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com
832: AI, Data, and the New Procurement Advantage W/ Vel Dhinagaravel (00:44:04)
"Procurement is going to be on the front lines, creating competitive advantage for the corporation." - Vel Dhinagaravel, CEO at Beroe AI isn't just a buzzword anymore… it's rapidly becoming procurement's sharpest tool for staying ahead. Business leaders now demand more than "check-the-box" savings; they want real, data-driven competitiveness that puts their organizations at the front of the pack. The big question: how can AI and always-on intelligence transform procurement's role and impact? In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Beroe CEO Vel Dhinagaravel joins host Philip Ideson for a candid conversation on the reality (and roadblocks) of using AI in procurement. Vel draws from deep experience and real-world case studies to reveal where intelligence platforms are making a difference, how measurement is shifting, and what mindsets are needed to win in today's faster, more transparent world. From rethinking metrics to unlocking competitive benchmarking and avoiding overhyped tech promises, this conversation gives procurement leaders practical advice they can use now. In this episode, Vel discusses: How leading CPOs are moving from point-in-time savings to continuous value Why benchmarking against competitors (not just last year's spend) is the new mandate Where and how to use AI for measurable results Ways to spot the hype vs. real limitations in intelligent agent tools How to prepare your team for the market's next leap in performance Links: Vel Dhinagaravel on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
831: Conquering the Decision Abyss: From Data to Supply Chain Impact W/ Keith Hartley (00:41:05)
"A decision abyss is the chasm that forms between critical supply chain functions… and that's what keeps and prevents organizations from making fast, cross-functional, well-informed data-driven decisions." – Keith Hartley, CEO and Board Member at LevaData, CEO of The Abyss Group In today's hyper-connected supply chains, data is everywhere, but turning it into fast, confident decisions remains elusive. The cost? Slow launches, eroding margins, and "spreadsheet heroics" that mask deeper issues. As the complexity compounds year after year, procurement leaders face a tough choice: keep coping, or tackle what Keith Hartley calls the "decision abyss." In this Art of Procurement podcast episode, Keith, CEO of LevaData and author of the new book "Conquering the Decision Abyss", joins host Philip Ideson to dig into this silent but urgent challenge. They explore why siloed information and human habits – not just technology – are holding teams back, and what's truly required to turn fragmented data into bold, coordinated action. Keith also shares real-world stories, quick wins, and a candid take on why C-suites are finally wading into supply chain's black box. In this episode, Keith also discusses how to: Diagnose the symptoms and root causes of the "decision abyss" Move your team beyond spreadsheet culture to smarter decisions Embrace modern AI to contextualize and use even messy data Enable rapid testing for new processes that deliver outcomes Links: Keith Hartley on LinkedIn Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
BTW EP 17: Check Yourself Before You Wreck Your P&L: Validating Procurement's Efforts with Kristine Morton (00:30:12)
When Kristine Morton's was first introduced to the flawed incentive structures plaguing much of corporate procurement, she said, "That all sounds stupid." Her blunt reaction reveals something profound: it is possible to build a procurement career without ever encountering the dysfunctional systems that dominate so many large organizations. In this episode of "Buy: The Way...To Purposeful Procurement," Kristine Morton, Director of Strategic Sourcing at Unleashed Brands, joins Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to demonstrate what procurement looks like when stakeholders demand proof, not promises. Working across franchise systems and private equity-backed companies, Kristine serves over 1,000 individual franchise owners who scrutinize every P&L line item. In her world, "savings" means money that actually hits the bottom line, not projections based on contract signatures. Every initiative undergoes rigorous testing before rollout, and continuous measurement ensures stakeholders receive exactly what was promised. In this episode, she explains the stark contrast between procurement theory and practice. While large corporations debate abstract incentive structures, Kristine focuses on operational empathy, which means understanding what makes franchise owners' lives easier, cheaper, or better. Her approach to category management is truly continuous. As Kristine puts it, "My vendor relationships don't end at contract signature. If I don't follow up and ensure our initiatives deliver what we promised, I won't learn when things don't work out." Kristine's leadership journey demonstrates that purposeful procurement doesn't require managing billions in spend. There's profound purpose in simply making efforts real and ensuring stakeholders get what they were promised. With this perspective, adoption is validation; if programs don't deliver value, business owners simply won't participate. Links: Kristine Morton Rich Ham on LinkedIn Learn more at FineTuneUs.com
830: Inside AOP's Acquisition of the ProcureTech100: Objectivity, Community, Impact (00:25:36)
"ProcureTech100 is the voice of the user. It's the voice of the customer. We want the perspective of those who are using these solutions every day, who have done proof of concepts, and who have seen the ROI." - Philip Ideson, Co-Founder and Managing Director at Art of Procurement Today's procurement leaders are surrounded by tech innovation and disruption, but separating real value from empty hype is more complex than ever. With hundreds of new providers, AI tools, and shifting priorities, staying competitive calls for more than just another list of solutions; it demands objective, peer-driven insights. This week, Art of Procurement co-founders Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner unpack the acquisition of the ProcureTech100 and Founders' Circle programs. They explain what sets the ProcureTech100 apart, why practitioner voices matter, and how this new approach will improve visibility, trust, and practical decision-making for procurement teams everywhere. Tune in for a candid conversation about rethinking technology intelligence, the importance of independence in awards and recommendations, and how community engagement is shaping the next chapter of procurement's digital story. In this episode, Philip and Kelly: Explain what makes the ProcureTech100 uniquely objective and peer-driven Share how practitioner insights inform more valuable tech recommendations Reveal new ways leaders and providers can participate or become judges Discuss the future direction for digitization advisory, as informed by community data Links: Trust & Transparency: Judging the 2025/26 ProcureTech100 Art of Procurement Acquires ProcureTech100, ProcureTech100 Yearbook, and Founders' Circle Subscribe to This Week in Procurement Subscribe to Art of Procurement on YouTube
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