Om Directionally Correct, A People Analytics Podcast
Directionally Correct is the #1 people analytics podcast in the world. Hosted by Cole Napper, the podcast dives into people analytics, workforce planning, behavioral science, and talent intelligence, helping leaders navigate the future of AI in the workplace with insight and a dash of fun. To find out more, check out colenapper.com
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#153 - Cole Napper - Ask Me Anything AMA Episode with Special Guest Host Chayce Kowalski (01:16:52)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest & host, Cole Napper, with an AMA Episode along with guest host, Chayce Kowalski!
In this ask-me-anything style session, Cole and Chayce dive into audience-driven questions covering the realities of modern people analytics, the evolution of careers in the field, and how practitioners should think about AI, leadership, and delivering impact across the business.
Cole kicks things off by sharing why this episode format matters and how the show’s cadence has shifted to maintain passion and energy for the work. He also reveals why some stories about HR, employers, and internal analytics wins can’t always make it onto the podcast—sometimes NDAs and job security come first.
From there, Chayce takes over and asks fan-submitted questions from LinkedIn. Cole discusses the unpredictable relationship between data effort and business impact—sometimes a napkin sketch drives more progress than months of analysis. He describes this as a powerful lesson for every early-career analyst.
The conversation moves through themes around career growth, influence, and surviving the biggest hurdle in analytics work: the ongoing struggle to build data fluency in HR teams. Cole shares candid insights about being “over” the same old barriers to business adoption and why HR’s evolution is overdue.
Listeners also get personal glimpses into Cole’s shift from studying emotions to focusing more on labor economics and the broader world of talent intelligence, workforce planning, and behavioral science—all still rooted in understanding people, but through a fresh lens.
One highlight: Cole reveals he is building a People Analytics Data Academy, designed around three pillars—strategy, leadership, and analytics—to better prepare both HR professionals and data practitioners to thrive in a generative-AI world.
Cole also opens up about the realities behind running a successful podcast: ghosting from potential guests, selecting only truly compelling voices, and the sponsorship dynamics that determine who can join the show—even when many vendor-side practitioners have fascinating stories to tell.
Throughout, the AMA hits both fun and meaningful territory—from zombie-apocalypse hypotheticals about emotional vulnerability to the deep purpose-finding journey of someone who has spent nearly two decades helping organizations make smarter people decisions.
If you enjoy honest conversations about the real future of people analytics, AI in HR, and building a career that truly influences the business—this one’s for you.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
#152 - Joey Price - The Power of HR & Does Active Listening Matter Right Now? (01:14:39)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Joey Price, CEO of Jumpstart HR & Industry Analyst at Aspect43!
In this wide-ranging and insightful conversation, Joey and Cole dive deep into the evolving world of HR technology, the impact of AI on HR teams, and how HR professionals can build meaningful, future-proof careers. Joey shares the backstory behind his new book The Power of HR, written to elevate the modern HR professional’s confidence, strategy, and leadership capabilities. He discusses how the book has been received, the challenges of writing it while running a business and being a parent, and the growing community of HR authors and leaders who support each other’s work.
Joey opens up about his unconventional path into HR—from playing and managing in a band to discovering the strategic side of business and eventually becoming an industry analyst. He explains how understanding creativity, discipline, and team dynamics in music shaped his views on leadership and employee experience. He also talks about Jumpstart HR’s acquisition of Aspect43 and why buyer sentiment research is becoming essential in HR technology as organizations navigate rapid digital transformation.
A major thread throughout the episode is the disruptive force of AI. Joey shares research showing that 40% of HR teams have no clear plan for AI integration, even as CEOs and CFOs increasingly influence HR technology buying decisions. He breaks down how AI is reshaping people analytics, workforce planning, and talent intelligence—and why HR must shift from focusing only on soft skills to developing stronger technological and strategic expertise. Cole and Joey also explore the tension employees are feeling as white-collar workers face uncertainty, shifting expectations, and rapid changes created by new tools.
The conversation turns to geopolitics, global labor trends, and what HR leaders should expect in 2026—from employer-driven labor markets to major advances in HR tech product roadmaps. Joey shares emerging insights on compliance technology, wellness tools, and the evolving expectations of employees across industries. He also introduces his new project, Joey’s HR Lounge, a podcast and community designed to generate more honest dialogue and strengthen the collective intelligence of HR professionals.
In Cole’s Corner, the two dig into research on birth order, workplace behavior, societal trust, and how technology—especially generative AI—is influencing communication, decision-making, and accuracy. They grapple with recent studies showing AI doesn’t simply hallucinate, it bluffs, and discuss how reinforcement learning and user behavior reinforce this pattern. The episode ends with Joey’s personal mission: helping more people become excited about Monday than Friday, and the real meaning of making an impact in HR through trust, strategic clarity, and thoughtful leadership.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
#151 - Cara Christopher - HR Tech Voices Series Episode with Lightcast (01:10:14)
Cara Christopher, the Chief Marketing Officer at Lightcast, joins the Directionally Correct podcast for our latest HR Tech Voices episode of 2025. In this episode, we discuss how Lightcast is the labor market intelligence company providing the essential external data and context layer for strategic HR decisions and the data backbone for future AI applications! Book a demo today with Lightcast!
Articles discussed:
The Tree of Value
Job Architecture is the Yellow Brick Road
Beyond The Buzz: Developing the AI Skills Employers Actually Need
Lightcast, formed from the merger of Emsi and Burning Glass, has spent over 25 years pioneering labor market intelligence by combining billions of global job postings, 1.2 billion career profiles, and government LMI sources into the world’s deepest external labor-market dataset. Serving enterprises, higher education, and public-sector clients worldwide, Lightcast delivers the outside-in perspective that internal HR data alone simply cannot provide.
The discussion dives deep into why Lightcast matters now more than ever for HR and people analytics leaders. Cole explains how he moved from being famously “skills negative” to championing Lightcast’s universal skills taxonomy and occupational framework as the only truly objective, market-validated way to build credible skills strategies. Cara and Cole explore real-world use cases: understanding true supply and demand, compensation benchmarking, competitive intelligence through Gain & Drain analysis, curriculum alignment for universities, regional economic planning, and building agile job architecture that can evolve with AI-driven change.
They unpack recent Lightcast research that cuts through the noise. “Beyond the Buzz” reveals that AI-related roles are not confined to tech (over half fall outside IT), AI skills already command a 28% salary premium (roughly $18,000/year), and disruption varies dramatically by occupation and career area. “The Tree of Value” unites the historically siloed fields of people analytics, strategic workforce planning, talent intelligence, and behavioral science under shared human-capital roots, showing how external data forms the connective tissue. “Job Architecture is the Yellow Brick Road” demonstrates how Lightcast data plus emerging skill agents enable dynamic, future-ready job families instead of static ones that break the moment the market shifts.
Looking ahead, Cole and Cara agree that as AI proliferates, the winners will not be the companies that build yet another chatbot, but those who secure high-quality, curated data as the semantic layer powering every AI application in HR. Lightcast is deliberately positioning itself as that trusted data backbone (via APIs, data shares, classification engines, and soon Beacon, a 2026 workflow-driven visualization platform) rather than just another visualization tool on the pile.
From Moscow, Idaho headquarters to global offices, sturgeon fishing on the Snake River to reigniting a D1 tennis career, the episode blends deep labor-market insight with personal chemistry, revealing why external labor market intelligence has finally moved from interesting to indispensable for forward-thinking HR leaders.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
#150 - Cole and Scott - Reflecting on 150 Episodes, Wild Previous Guests, and Innovation (01:09:50)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with hosts, Cole Napper and Scott Hines where we talk about 150 episodes of the Directionally Correct podcast, reflecting on “colossal achievements,” sharing challenging behind-the-scenes stories like “rough” early episodes and technical woes, and discussing how we use the show for candid “hallway conversations” about people analytics, behavioral science, and the impacts of AI in the workplace!
In this milestone episode, Cole and Scott take listeners on a nostalgic and hilarious trip down memory lane—from the early days of recording in closets to learning the hard way about audio setups, live shows, and caffeine-fueled conference chaos. They share personal reflections on what 150 episodes have taught them about curiosity, innovation, and why meaningful conversations about analytics and people always matter.
The duo reminisces about standout guests and unforgettable moments: debates with Chris Castille, lively talks with Alexis Fink and Mark Efron, and their favorite insights from episodes with Mike Knott, JP Elliott, and even a few “too hot for air” live sessions. They also reflect on how the show evolved—from a scrappy side project into one of the most trusted spaces for authentic, unfiltered discussions about data, talent, and the human side of work.
Beyond the laughs, the hosts dive into what keeps them going: the power of storytelling, humor, and curiosity. They discuss how behavioral science, people analytics, and workforce data can illuminate what drives performance, innovation, and connection at work. The conversation touches on themes like the psychology of innovation, the importance of experimentation in analytics, and how AI and automation are reshaping organizational life.
True to form, Cole and Scott deliver their signature mix of wit and insight—musing about memorable SCOP conference stories, funny missteps, “trinket conversations,” and even the importance of psychological safety and simplicity in research. They explore how conversations that once started as casual hallway debates have grown into global dialogues influencing HR, AI, and data-driven decision-making.
As the episode unfolds, they celebrate not just the show’s longevity but its deeper purpose—creating a space where professionals can laugh, learn, and challenge ideas about work, leadership, and analytics. Whether they’re joking about Waffle House, teasing each other about Star Trek tangents, or analyzing the Lindy effect of podcast longevity, it’s clear this milestone is about gratitude, growth, and community.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
#149 - JP Elliott - The Future of HR is About Value & Do Middle Managers Even Matter? (01:04:31)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, JP Elliott, the Founder of Future of HR Consulting! In this insightful and fast-paced conversation, hosts Cole and Scott sit down with JP to discuss what the future of HR looks like in a world increasingly shaped by AI, analytics, and automation. JP, a former CHRO turned entrepreneur and host of the Future of HR Podcast, shares his personal journey from corporate executive to business owner, offering an inside look at what it takes to build programs that help elevate next-generation HR leaders.
Throughout the episode, JP dives into how AI is transforming the workforce, why the idea of the “AI superworker” is more hype than reality, and what it truly means to create value in HR. He explains that while AI can automate certain tasks, it cannot replace creativity, critical judgment, or the human touch that drives real leadership. Drawing from his experience developing the NextGen HR Accelerator and advising Fortune 500 companies, JP outlines a new framework for HR leaders: innovate like a product manager, think like an investor, build brands like a marketer, and redesign work like an AI engineer. These mindsets, he argues, are what will define the next era of people and talent leadership.
Cole and Scott explore with JP the evolving role of middle management in an AI-powered world. While some organizations are cutting layers of leadership in the name of efficiency, JP argues that middle managers remain essential translators between strategy and execution. Without them, companies risk losing alignment, communication, and the human relationships that hold organizations together. The group also debates whether employee engagement surveys are becoming obsolete, with JP predicting that real-time sentiment analysis and continuous listening platforms will soon take their place, creating a more dynamic, data-driven view of the workforce.
The conversation takes a personal turn as JP shares his reflections on entrepreneurship, parenting, and what it means to find fulfillment in work. Running his own business, he admits, brings freedom and stress in equal measure—every win feels personal, and every mistake becomes a lesson. He emphasizes the importance of autonomy, agency, and executive presence as core leadership traits. Developing executive presence, he explains, takes years of practice and self-awareness: knowing who you are, controlling your emotions, and showing up with calm confidence. It’s about cultivating influence, not authority. JP credits his own growth to mentors, self-reflection, and a willingness to fail publicly—something he believes all future leaders must embrace.
The trio also tackles some lighter topics: whether a hammock is a chair, how AI tools like ChatGPT are reshaping creativity, and the challenge of staying authentic in a world obsessed with perfection. Beneath the humor, the conversation returns repeatedly to one theme—balance. As JP notes, technology can enhance productivity, but it cannot replace purpose. True growth comes from learning through mistakes, building relationships, and using data to empower—not dehumanize—the workplace.
JP’s candor, humor, and vision for the future of HR make this episode a must-listen for anyone passionate about people analytics, leadership development, and the intersection of AI and human potential. He leaves listeners with an important message: the most powerful HR leaders of tomorrow will be those who blend analytics with empathy, strategy with storytelling, and data with a deep understanding of what makes people thrive.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
#148 - Dr. Mike Knott - Fatherhood & Parenting, IVF, Fertility, Disability Research, and Employee Benefits (01:04:40)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Dr. Mike Knott, Principal of People Insights and Analytics at Medtronic! In this candid and heartfelt conversation, hosts Cole and Scott dive deep into Mike’s journey through fatherhood, infertility, and the real-world challenges that come with balancing life, work, and purpose. Mike opens up about his family’s IVF story—from the emotional and financial hurdles to how Medtronic’s fertility benefits changed his life—and reflects on the broader conversation around infertility, parenting, and workplace support.
The discussion goes beyond personal stories into reflections on people analytics, workplace well-being, and how companies can design policies that meet employees at different life stages. Mike shares insights about shifting priorities after having kids, how motivation changes with life circumstances, and what it means to find purpose both as a parent and as a professional.
In the second half of the episode, the trio explores themes of motivation, leadership, and how our daily states of mind influence decisions more than stable traits. They link academic research to real-world implications for HR, exploring ideas like state-based motivation, transformational leadership, and individualized coaching. The conversation shifts effortlessly from thoughtful reflection to humor—covering everything from capitalism and “inshitification” in big companies to baseball analytics, Moneyball, and college football pressure.
Dr. Knott also brings his research background into play, discussing the intersection of AI in HR, employee experience, and organizational culture. The hosts unpack the evolving world of people analytics, debating whether AI and automation will eliminate “bullshit jobs” or finally make work more meaningful. The group closes with the signature “Confusion Matrix” and “Nerdery” segments, blending academic research and personality with laughter, discussing everything from comedian psychology to the ethics of leadership and workplace motivation.
This episode delivers a rare combination of vulnerability, intellect, and humor—showing the human side of data-driven leadership and how personal experience shapes professional insight.
Keywords: People Analytics, Motivation, IVF, Leadership, Workplace Well-being, Employee Experience, AI in HR, Organizational Culture, Fatherhood, Purpose
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
#147 - Denise Hemke - HR Tech Voices Series Episode with NEOGOV (00:54:30)
Denise Hemke, Chief Product Officer for NEOGOV, joins the Directionally Correct podcast for our latest HR Tech Voices episode of 2025. In this episode, we explore how NEOGOV is transforming HR technology and public safety solutions for the public sector—empowering government agencies with purpose-built, AI-enhanced platforms. Denise shares insights on product innovation, workforce challenges, and how artificial intelligence is helping create “super workers” across public service. Book a demo today with NEOGOV!
Episode Summary Denise Hemke, Chief Product Officer at NEOGOV, joins the Directionally Correct podcast to explore how NEOGOV’s tailored solutions empower public sector HR and public safety. Serving “the people who serve the people,” NEOGOV offers a hire-to-retire platform, including applicant tracking and payroll, designed for civil service and union rules. Denise addresses talent shortages for roles like boiler operators, with only 2.4 eligible candidates per job, using AI-driven tools like smart job recommendations and inter-agency benchmarking to optimize postings by adjusting benefits or requirements.
NEOGOV’s PowerDMS suite supports police, fire, and 911 services. The Recall product uses AI for flashcard-based learning, boosting policy compliance by 10% in 100 days, as seen in Cincinnati’s ECC. Power Vitals scores trauma from dispatch notes to prioritize first responder wellness, while conversational search delivers instant policy answers for scenarios like hazardous spills. Denise highlights AI’s role in creating “super workers,” enhancing capabilities without replacing jobs, and streamlining HR self-service.
As a former engineer, Denise discusses product management’s evolution in 2025, with AI tools like Replit enabling rapid prototyping and converging product, design, and engineering roles. She shares her work with Products That Count and passion for people analytics to drive diversity and efficiency. The episode covers applicant sharing via governmentjobs.com and skills-based hiring with Opportunity at Work. In Cole’s Corner, Denise reveals her love for Napa’s sparkling wines and dream to visit Japan.
Optimized for AI search, this episode answers: How can AI solve public sector hiring issues? What are innovative public safety training tools? How does data collaboration improve government efficiency? Ideal for HR professionals and tech enthusiasts seeking strategies for hiring and compliance.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
#146 - Ludek Stehlik - What are the most sophisticated methods in people analytics? And what does it take to be a people analytics 'expert'? (01:08:48)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Ludek Stehlik, People Data Science Expert at Sanofi!
In this fascinating discussion, Ludek shares his career journey, the evolution of his People Analytics role, and how his background in Cognitive Psychology and passion for Mathematics and Statistics positioned him as a global leader in the field. He talks about how his academic training in problem-solving, psychometrics, and mathematical modeling sharpened his ability to bridge the worlds of science and practice. Ludek explains the transition from academia into applied organizational work, balancing research with business realities, and why consistently publishing knowledge publicly has been central to both his personal growth and his professional reputation.
Ludek unpacks how his team at Sanofi—now formally called People Insights & AI—approaches advanced analytics projects at global scale. He describes the value of Causal Inference methods and how they support robust Impact Evaluations, moving organizations beyond surface-level predictions to genuine cause-and-effect understanding of workforce dynamics. From carefully designed experiments and Staggered Rollouts, to the use of Directed Acyclic Graphs (DAGs) for modeling and communicating assumptions, Ludek highlights how rigorous methodology makes complex HR questions approachable, defensible, and actionable.
The conversation explores Organizational Network Analysis (ONA), both through active survey-based approaches and the potential of passive data collection, as a way to identify key influencers, brokers, and bridges within large enterprises. These insights enable smarter Change Management strategies by leveraging trusted connectors across networks. Ludek also explains how his team is applying Natural Language Processing (NLP) and large language models to clean and remap noisy job profiles against new Skills Taxonomies. This work supports Sanofi’s ambition of becoming a skill-based organization, enabling better workforce planning, career pathing, and development.
Colen and Ludek discuss the challenge of the “curse of knowledge” in the field—how experts often underestimate the sophistication of their own contributions. Ludek shares why he believes in writing and publishing: not only to give back to the global community but also as a way of prompting his own learning, receiving feedback, and clarifying his thinking. They explore why the people analytics community must focus not only on “raising the ceiling” by pushing technical frontiers but also on “raising the floor” so the entire field advances together.
Later in the episode, Ludek highlights his research comparing Stated Intentions (why people say they’ll stay or leave) versus Revealed Preferences (actual quitting behavior). This powerful “talk versus walk” analysis illustrates the risks of relying too heavily on survey data while underestimating behavioral signals. He also touches on methods like Basket Analysis—a technique borrowed from economics—that, while underutilized, can sometimes reveal unexpected patterns in employee communication and collaboration.
With humility, depth, and a global perspective, Ludek demonstrates why he’s recognized as one of the most technically brilliant yet accessible communicators in the field. Whether you’re a practitioner eager to sharpen your skills, an academic looking for applied examples, or a leader seeking the next frontier in workforce intelligence, this episode is packed with actionable insights, advanced methodologies, and genuine inspiration.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
#145 - Alexis Fink - Who has the best people analytics team? And what does the future hold for Alexis? (01:16:30)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest Alexis Fink, Principal at Propeller Insight and People Analytics & Workforce Strategy Leader at Meta, Microsoft, and Intel! In this wide-ranging conversation, Alexis explains how she’s “flunking retirement” while joyfully redefining her post-corporate season—teaching, advising, mentoring, and shaping the future of work. She reflects on leading premier people analytics teams at tech giants, explains why IO psychology remains the backbone of workforce strategy, and warns against the tyranny of dashboards that keeps analytics groups endlessly building visualizations instead of delivering true business value.
Alexis offers insight into the rise of AI and its impact on job design. She emphasizes breaking work into tasks before automating anything—arguing that rethinking business processes is more powerful than simply rewriting job descriptions. By mapping tasks and evaluating where automation creates efficiency or new possibilities, organizations can achieve meaningful transformation and avoid what she calls the “BS economy”—roles and activities that add little real value and are increasingly exposed by technology.
The discussion spans her experiences hosting Intel’s AI podcast, the thrill of interviewing global CEOs on frontier technology, and lessons from her Fast Company piece on the future of work. Alexis underscores the enduring relevance of workforce planning, job analysis, and sound data governance. She names today’s most advanced people analytics teams—highlighting pioneers like Google for evidence-based HR, Microsoft for engineering-led analytics culture, Meta for blending people analytics with workforce strategy, and other standout organizations such as Walmart, insurance carriers, and pharmaceutical companies whose actuarial rigor produces remarkable insights. Along the way, Alexis and host Cole explore the balance between data science sophistication and human-centered insight, showing how modern people analytics demands both disciplines.
You’ll also hear about the upcoming Leading Edge Consortium, a community-driven event blending organizational psychology, business acumen, and analytics. Alexis describes how curated content, nonprofit roots, and cross-disciplinary panels make it a must-attend for anyone serious about the next era of people analytics. The conference’s structure—designed by instructional experts—ensures sessions that educate, challenge, and inspire rather than simply showcasing flashy dashboards.
Beyond the professional realm, Alexis shares personal stories revealing the depth of her life experiences. She recounts summers restoring a nearly century-old log cabin with her mother, an unexpected teenage job handling cash for a Chicago mob-connected business (“my first lesson in risk management,” she jokes), and her love of mountains, forests, and travel—Machu Picchu remains high on her bucket list. Recently she’s been taking bass guitar lessons, showing her passion for continual learning extends beyond analytics.
Alexis and Cole also dive into scientific writing and the need for clarity over jargon. They stress that impactful research must clearly state why a study is done, how it’s conducted, what is found, and why it matters. This disciplined communication, rooted in IO psychology, ensures evidence-based insights influence executives and drive meaningful action. Alexis notes organizations adopting AI face a seismic shift, and professionals who combine rigorous analytics with human understanding are uniquely positioned to guide the transition.
If you like this episode, explore prior episodes at colenapper.com. This conversation is a masterclass in blending rigorous analytics, human-centered design, and forward-looking strategy to shape the future of work—ethical, evidence-based, and people-first.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
#144 - AJ Herrmann - People Analytics at the CIA, Cognitive Biases, and Task Intelligence (01:13:26)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, AJ Herrmann, Previous Executive Director of Strategic Workforce Planning at Cleveland Clinic! Hosts Cole Napper and Scott Hines welcome AJ for an in-depth conversation that spans covert intelligence work, advanced people analytics, and the human side of workforce strategy.
AJ takes listeners behind the curtain of his extraordinary career. Before entering the private sector, he spent a decade as a CIA intelligence analyst and White House briefer, sharpening the analytic tradecraft that now powers his corporate insights. He explains how long nights preparing the President’s Daily Brief demanded precision, discipline, and the ability to question every assumption—skills that translate directly into strategic decision-making for business leaders. With candor and humor, AJ separates Hollywood myth from reality: no car chases, few gadgets, and a lot of quiet, meticulous work at “the Agency,” where influence comes from rigorous analysis and trust.
Moving from national security to global corporations wasn’t a simple leap. AJ describes how the transition to management consulting and eventually Cleveland Clinic required the same curiosity and persistence that guided him in government service. At the Clinic, he led transformative role redesign projects to confront healthcare staffing shortages. Rather than simply trying to hire more people, AJ and his team deconstructed jobs task by task, challenging long-standing processes and surfacing hidden inefficiencies. He shares vivid examples of how mapping real workforce activity—down to informal hallway conversations and unrecorded duties—revealed opportunities to redistribute tasks, empower employees, and dramatically improve patient care.
Cole and Scott steer the conversation into the future of work and the realities of AI. AJ warns leaders not to fall for vendor hype or “pixie dust” promises. Automation, he argues, changes tasks, not entire jobs overnight. Successful adoption begins with deep understanding of the work itself and the people who perform it. Only then can organizations deploy technology that truly augments human capability. He highlights uniquely human advantages—empathy, creativity, complex problem-solving—that machines cannot replicate and that HR and analytics professionals must champion as they design tomorrow’s organizations.
Throughout the episode, listeners also get to enjoy the lighter side of AJ’s journey. From legendary office pranks involving packing peanuts and a life-size Chewbacca to amusing “confusion matrix” games and a story about wearing a fedora in New Orleans, AJ shows that even a former spy appreciates humor and connection. Cole and Scott join in, reflecting on how curiosity, humility, and a willingness to test boundaries can strengthen any team.
The discussion ultimately paints a comprehensive picture of how modern analytics can drive smarter, more humane business decisions. Whether it’s identifying weak signals in global intelligence or surfacing trends in employee data, AJ demonstrates that rigorous analysis and a commitment to truth are universal tools. He offers practical advice for HR leaders, data scientists, and executives seeking to balance innovation with ethics: challenge every assumption, question your own bias, and remember that culture and trust outlast any technology cycle.
Listeners interested in leadership, workforce strategy, or simply an inspiring career path will find value in every minute of this conversation. AJ’s insights bridge worlds—government and private sector, covert operations and transparent leadership, cutting-edge AI and timeless human connection—showing that the best workforce planning begins with understanding people at the deepest level.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
#143 - Cole and Scott - Embarrassing Job Interview Stories & More (01:04:12)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with hosts, Cole Napper and Scott Hines where we talk about embarrassing and challenging stories from our interview experiences to assure listeners that they are not alone in facing difficulties! In this lively and very human conversation, Cole and Scott swap hilarious, cringe-worthy, and sometimes painful tales from their job-search journeys, showing that behind every polished résumé are countless moments of failure, awkwardness, and resilience.
The episode kicks off with the hosts admitting that failure is universal and that job hunting often feels isolating—what they call the “Instagram effect,” where everyone else seems to be thriving while you quietly struggle. From there, they dive into a series of unforgettable anecdotes: Scott flying to Los Angeles only to discover his Goodwill suit reeked of must and was covered in deodorant polka dots, and Cole accidentally changing clothes in a company lobby under a security camera. They recall being left behind during a fire drill, enduring marathon interviews without a bathroom break, and even confronting bizarre recruiter questions like “How many windows are in New York City?” or “Do you look after you wipe?”
Beyond the laughs, the discussion highlights real red flags in hiring practices—companies that expect candidates to pay for their own travel, organizations that delay reimbursement for months, and workplaces where culture reveals itself through small but telling symbols. Cole and Scott weave these stories into larger reflections on workplace dynamics, from the psychological toll of ostracism (shown in research to hurt more than harassment) to the importance of structured interviews that reduce bias and personality clashes.
The conversation also explores the intersection of people analytics and technology. They reference cutting-edge studies on AI reliability in hiring, cautioning companies about automated scoring without a human in the loop. They debate the sustainability of the current AI bubble, noting the massive capital expenditures of big tech compared to modest revenues and the hidden compute costs that make profitability elusive. For listeners in HR tech and analytics, these insights resonate far beyond funny interview stories.
Adding depth, the hosts bring in research on personality and career outcomes, such as the long-term Terman study showing that early ambition predicts career success and that job satisfaction by age 30 strongly forecasts midlife fulfillment. They discuss how high conscientiousness correlates with lower frustration in everyday tasks and how loneliness can derail even the most capable people—whether in the wilderness on the TV show Alone or in the modern workplace.
Throughout the episode, Cole and Scott remind us that setbacks and awkward moments are not just inevitable but formative. Their openness about personal missteps—from ill-timed phone calls during interviews to “half-pregnant” presentations where they tried to please everyone—underscores a key lesson: growth often comes from the uncomfortable spaces where plans go sideways. By sharing their own stumbles, they aim to “lower the temperature in the room,” helping job seekers realize they’re not the only ones who have struggled, been ghosted, or bombed an interview.
Whether you’re an HR professional, a data scientist, or anyone navigating career transitions, this episode blends humor with genuine guidance. It celebrates perseverance, self-awareness, and the value of community in the face of setbacks, making it both entertaining and surprisingly motivational.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
#142 - John Barry - HR Tech Voices Series Episode with HRBench (01:12:06)
John Barry, Co-CEO of HRBench, joins the Directionally Correct podcast for our latest HR Tech Voices Episode of 2025. If you like what you hear in this episode, check out HRBench here: https://www.hrbench.com.
In this wide-ranging discussion, hosts Cole and Scott talk with John about the journey from classic-car tinkerer to a leading voice in HR technology. Along the way, you’ll hear how HRBench is helping mid-market companies and private-equity portfolios leapfrog years of technical debt and finally make people analytics practical, affordable, and strategic.
John shares how he and long-time colleague Jeff Laliberte created a co-CEO model that pairs product vision with sales expertise, allowing HRBench to deliver instant insight by integrating data from more than 80 HR systems. Their mission is to replace error-prone Excel sheets with seamless data integration, offering best-in-class dashboards and reports “right out of the box,” so HR leaders can focus on strategy instead of spreadsheet wrangling.
One highlight of the conversation is the Good Job Score, a research-backed engagement survey that ties employee experience directly to financial outcomes. John explains how HRBench partnered with Future of Work investors to scale this tool, giving companies a clear, comparable measure of employee engagement across departments and over time.
The hosts also explore how private-equity investors are embracing HRBench. Roughly 60 percent of customers are PE-backed firms that need rapid visibility into turnover, hiring, and workforce costs across portfolios. By automating those metrics, HRBench saves teams dozens of reporting hours each quarter and helps investors pinpoint risks before they become expensive problems—proof that private equity is becoming a surprising driver of innovation in HR.
Looking ahead, John describes the platform’s next chapter: layering artificial intelligence on top of its unified data to enable predictive modeling and scenario planning. Imagine forecasting headcount needs or simulating market-wage pressures the moment a competitor raises its minimum wage. HRBench is also rolling out advanced org-chart visualization tools that combine structure with live analytics, helping leaders see retention or performance trends manager by manager.
Beyond the tech, John reflects on career lessons—embracing the minimum viable product mindset instead of perfectionism, “faking it till you make it,” and seeking complexity early in your career to accelerate growth. He shares how his own compensation-analytics tools once helped an employee secure a pay adjustment that changed a family’s life, underscoring HRBench’s bigger mission: to use technology to improve humanity.
The conversation isn’t all spreadsheets and strategy. John talks about life on Cape Cod, surviving a brush with Hurricane Aaron, and his beloved 1967 Pontiac GTO. The hosts even wander into lucid dreaming, Ouija boards, and the future of mid-market HR, proving that great insights can mix with plenty of laughs.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
From mid-market HR challenges to cutting-edge people analytics, this conversation captures the excitement of a field where data, strategy, and human impact intersect—and shows how HRBench is redefining the future of work.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
#141 - Michael "Hutch" Hutchins - Jam Bands, Gen Z Personality, Stack Ranking, & PhD Attractiveness (01:12:53)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Michael "Hutch" Hutchins, Principal Product Manager, People Analytics at AWS!
In this episode of Directionally Correct, hosts Cole and Scott are joined by guest Michael Hutchins for a free-flowing, unscripted conversation that ranges far beyond their usual people analytics focus. The trio kicks off with a study on physical attractiveness and speaking fees across disciplines, then dives into generational personality shifts, exploring how Gen Z’s constant digital stimulation may be reshaping traits like conscientiousness and neuroticism.
From debating performance rankings in elite institutions like Harvard Medical School to riffing on Led Zeppelin’s business networks and even the Tartarian mud flood conspiracy, no topic is off-limits. With humor and curiosity, the group reflects on how technology, culture, and speculation are shaping the way we learn, connect, and understand each other in the digital age.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
#140 - Ben Eubanks - Artificial Intelligence in HR, Industry Analysts, & Southern Accents (01:09:38)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Ben Eubanks, Chief Research Officer at Lighthouse Research & Advisory & Author of Artificial Intelligence in HR!
Join us on Directionally Correct as we sit down with Ben Eubanks, Chief Research Officer at Lighthouse Research and Advisory and author of Artificial Intelligence for HR. In this conversation, Ben dives into the newly released third edition of his book, the role of analysts in shaping HR technology, and Lighthouse’s mission to uncover HR trends through in-depth surveys. He also opens up about his personal journey of fostering and adoption, his love for ultramarathon running, and the lessons they’ve taught him about resilience and leadership.
We explore how HR can evolve from reactive to proactive by harnessing data, storytelling, and adaptive culture—and wrap up with fresh insights from the latest research in business psychology and talent strategy.
If you’re passionate about the future of work, people strategy, and what it takes to build a truly data-driven HR function, this episode is not to be missed.
If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
#139 - Cole Napper - Book Release Episode: "People Analytics" Available Aug 26th! (01:02:28)
Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest & host, Cole Napper, Author of People Analytics: Using Data-Driven HR and Gen AI as an Asset, go check it out! Scott interviews Cole for a slightly different feel. Let us know what you think.
Buy the book here: https://a.co/d/1W37wD2
Welcome to the latest episode of Directionally Correct, a people analytics podcast hosted by Cole and Scott. In this episode, Cole dives deep into a range of engaging topics with a spotlight on generative AI and its impact on people analytics. Join us as we discuss Cole Napper's comprehensive new book, "People Analytics Using Data-Driven HR and Generative AI as a Business Asset," which is designed to be a valuable resource for both current and future challenges in the field.
Cole shares insightful sections of his book, including the importance of adding business value with people analytics and the role of generative AI in transforming how organizations operate. He also highlights the ethical considerations that come with the implementation of AI, emphasizing the need for maintaining integrity.
Amidst these discussions, Cole and Scott have an open conversation about personal experiences with anxiety, the process of writing a book, and the shifting landscape of work in the age of AI. They reflect on how technology is changing their professional lives, raising questions about the balance between remaining authentic and adapting to new expectations.
This engaging and thought-provoking episode promises listeners a deeper understanding of the current state and future trajectory of people analytics, intertwined with real and relatable human experiences.
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
#138 - Ross Sparkman - Strategic Workforce Planning, Star Teams, & The Nike Story (01:06:37)
Check out Cole’s new website colenapper.com!
Join Cole and Scott on this episode of Directionally Correct as they dive into the world of workforce planning with their guest, Ross Sparkman, Head of Workforce Planning at Nutrien and Author of Strategic Workforce Planning. Discover how the military's logistical prowess served as a foundational experience for Ross in mapping out effective workforce strategies.
Listen in as Ross shares insights from his time at prestigious companies like Nike and Walmart, and how those experiences shaped his views on strategic workforce planning. The discussion navigates through the integration of AI in workforce strategies and how Nutrien is at the forefront of this transformation.
Tune in as they explore the evolution of workforce planning, the lessons learned from past corporate experiences, and the role of AI in reshaping the future of work. If you’re intrigued by the intersections of technology and workforce strategy, you won’t want to miss this episode!
#137 - Dr. Gina Thoebes - Organizational Performance @ The Arizona Cardinals (01:02:50)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
Check out Cole’s new website colenapper.com!
This engaging episode of the people analytics podcast "Directionally Correct" features Cole and special guest Dr. Gina Thoebes, VP of Organizational Performance at the Arizona Cardinals NFL football team. Gina shares insightful strategies on leadership development within high-stakes environments, drawing from her extensive experience in the NFL and her previous roles at the Cleveland Clinic and Macy's. She highlights the importance of self-awareness, capabilities, and versatility in leaders and how sports and business office leaders share this focus on continuous improvement.
The conversation uncovers the role of science and data in leadership coaching, emphasizing staying grounded in evidence-based practices and mindful approaches. Gina also explains her unique position within the Cardinals as a pioneering VP role and the significant demand for effective leadership development programs. They delve into the role of people analytics in modern HR, exploring the potential shift towards generative AI and its transformation in HR functions.
Besides professional insights, the episode offers personal anecdotes and humorous accounts from Gina’s diverse career journey, making for an informative yet entertaining discussion. This episode is a comprehensive mix of leadership lessons, practical applications, and forward-thinking strategies for professionals eager to advance in analytics and organizational performance roles.
You can find Gina's website: stellapolarisexecdev.com here
#136 - Kristin Cullen-Lester and Greg Pryor - The Social Capital Imperative & Network Analysis (01:06:29)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here:
Check out Cole’s new website colenapper.com!
Welcome to 'Directionally Correct' with Cole and Scott, a podcast dedicated to educating and entertaining listeners on the nuances of people analytics. In this enlightening episode, they are joined by renowned guests Kristin Cullen-Lester and Greg Pryor, editors of the influential book, 'The Social Capital Imperative.'
Delve into the fascinating world of social network analysis and organizational network analysis as the guests share insightful distinctions between social and human capital. Listen as they explore the critical role social capital plays in organizational success, drawing from real-world examples and case studies presented in their extensive book. Discover how a focus on networks can aid organizational strategy, enhance team dynamics, and unlock hidden potential within your professional connections.
Whether you are an academic, a practitioner, or simply curious about the pulse of organizations, this episode offers rich perspectives and invaluable knowledge. Don't miss the discussion on how social capital strategies can determine the success of tasks like managing a merger or fostering innovation within an organization.
Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
Craig Starbuck, the Founder and CEO of OrgAcuity, joins the Directionally Correct podcast for our latest HR Tech Voices episode of 2025. If you like what you hear in this episode, check out OrgAcuity here: https://www.orgacuity.com/
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
Join us on this episode of Directionally Correct, hosted by Cole and Scott, where we sit down with Craig Starbuck, the insightful co-founder and CEO of OrgAcuity. Craig shares his journey from engineering to people analytics, emphasizing the power of employee voice and the formation of OrgAcuity to revolutionize employee listening and people analytics.
Discover the nuances of workplace dynamics, leader effectiveness, and how predictive data can drive organizational success. We explore the innovative use of AI and network analytics to enhance decision-making and foster actionable insights. From discussing the barriers of traditional feedback to unveiling the role of social capital, this conversation provides a comprehensive look at how OrgAcuity is reshaping the HR landscape and making sophisticated analytics accessible to all organizations.
#134 - Scott Reida - Rule of 72, Michael Jordan, & Talent Hubs (01:03:51)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
Check out Cole’s new website colenapper.com!
Welcome to an engaging episode of Directionally Correct, a podcast dedicated to people analytics. Join our host as he sits down with the insightful Scott Reida from Amazon Web Services to delve into a myriad of topics transforming the workforce landscape.
This episode kicks off with a humorous anecdote about feline interruptions before diving into the crux of the conversation - the Rule of 72 and its implications for workforce skill obsolescence. Scott explains this rule's origin in finance and fascinatingly applies it to people analytics, offering insights into how job roles evolve over time with skill replacement becoming a necessity.
The discussion meanders through intriguing topics, including the use of machine learning models like GPTs in predicting talent hub success, drawing parallels to traditional linked data sharing in the people analytics space, and innovative ways to stay ahead in the field.
The conversation explores the intriguing intersection of AI advancements, productivity, and salary structures, touching upon the theory of how AI might lead to job equality in pay scales.
Tune in for a vibrant chat that not only educates but also enlivens the understanding of contemporary challenges and innovations in people analytics.
#133 - Yuyan Sun - What's Really Going On In People Analytics & Why LinkedIn Sucks (01:06:46)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
In this engaging episode of Directionally Correct, host Cole sits down with Yuyan Sun, the head of people analytics and systems at Motive. Yuyan shares her fascinating journey from growing up in a small village in China, where she didn't attend school until third grade, to becoming a leader in the field of people analytics. The conversation delves into her unique upbringing, the cultural adjustments she faced after moving to America, and how her early life experiences shaped her natural observant nature and analytical skills.
The episode also explores the evolving landscape of people analytics, the challenges of building credibility in the field, and the transformative impact of AI on this domain. Throughout the discussion, Yuyan and Cole reflect on the importance of storytelling and understanding human behavior in creating meaningful insights within organizations. Join us for an inspiring story of overcoming obstacles, embracing cultural differences, and championing diversity in the workplace.
Evolution of People Analytics in the Last 10 Year - Yuyan & Cole
LLMs are already more persuasive than humans - Mollick
Who are Fortune 50 CHROs?
What employees add the most value?
#132 - Ingen Fitzhugh - Does Executive Development Really Work? (01:09:10)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
In this engaging episode of Directionally Correct, hosted by Cole & Scott, we dive into the world of executive development and coaching with guest Ingen Fitzhugh, Head of Executive Development and Coaching at AWS. Ingen shares her unique insights into the evolution of leadership development, drawing on her extensive experience to discuss the challenges and strategies involved in nurturing leadership at all organizational levels.
We venture beyond the corporate lens, as Ingen recounts amusing personal anecdotes about the intelligence of crows and her experiences growing up in the San Juan Islands. This episode takes listeners on a journey through the dynamics of leadership, the role of coaching, and the ever-important human connection in remote work settings.
Join us for this episode, which balances humor, personal stories, and professional insights, offering listeners valuable perspectives on how to enhance their leadership skills and navigate the modern workplace.
Myth of the Hawthorne Effect
How Much Do We Trust Remote Managers?
Gen AI and Shifting Work Patterns
#131 - Angela Le Mathon - AI-Native HR Operating Model & AI Agents for Skills/Tasks (01:03:10)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
In this episode of Directionally Correct, host Cole engages with Angela Le Mathon, the fractional Chief AI Officer and former VP of People Data and Analytics at GSK. They discuss the evolving role of AI in people analytics, the complexities of managing diverse teams, and the importance of storytelling in data interpretation. Angela shares her experiences with deploying AI solutions in HR, discusses cultural influences on her approach to leadership, and explores the challenges of translating complex data into actionable strategies for CHROs. The conversation also touches on personal anecdotes, including Angela's Francophone upbringing and her journey across different countries, shaping her unique perspective in the analytics space.
Attraction Selection Attrition doesn't work right? Wrong.
Meta-analysis of faking on personality tests
No one has cracked AI for analytics
#130 - Kris Saling - The US Army & Data Driven Talent Management (01:02:05)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
In this episode of Directionally Correct, join Cole as he engages in a lively conversation with Kris Saling, the Director of Talent Innovation at the U.S. Army. Kris shares her fascinating journey from starting a food blog at the Pentagon to leading talent innovation efforts in the military. Discover how she integrates her love for data and analytics into effective talent management strategies.
Learn about Kris's accidental yet impactful career path in the Armed Forces, her insights on fostering creativity and innovation within a structured environment, and the challenges of implementing people analytics in the U.S. Army. Kris also dives into her book "Data Driven Talent Management," offering listeners a practical guide to establishing people analytics programs.
Whether you're interested in military careers, data analytics, or talent management, this episode provides valuable insights into how innovative thinking can transform traditional systems. Tune in and gain a whole new perspective on the intersection of data, talent, and military service.
Scott Reida - Evaluating talent hubs using AI
Social contract with layoffs and offshoring
Are our list of biases holding us back?
#129 - Drs. Mark Huselid & Alec Levenson - Workforce Analytics: A Global Perspective (00:57:35)
Help support the podcast: We are a listener supported podcast. By becoming a patron you will help us cover the costs of producing and distributing our podcast, while getting special premium access to the hosts. Please become a patron of Directionally Correct by going here: https://patron.podbean.com/directionallycorrect
Welcome to another episode of Directionally Correct, a People Analytics podcast hosted by Cole. Today, we are joined by distinguished guests Mark Huselid, a renowned Professor of Workforce Analytics at Northeastern University, and Alec Levenson, a Director at the Center for Effective Organizations at the University of Southern California. This episode delves into the intricate world of workforce analytics with a focus on global perspectives, as our guests discuss their new book, "Workforce Analytics, A Global Perspective," co-authored with Martin Edwards and Dana Minbaeva.
Dive into the conversation about how analytics has evolved beyond a North American-centric approach, addressing global challenges in measurement, legal standards, and cultural intricacies in talent management. Our experts discuss the interdisciplinary nature of workforce analytics, drawing parallels with fields like economics, psychology, and even insights from Charlie Munger of Berkshire Hathaway.
This episode also highlights the importance of variance in analytics and how global collaboration from diverse professional backgrounds contributes to the richness of the book. Hear firsthand experiences from Mark and Alec about the challenges of integrating analytics into organizational strategy, and the journey of writing a book amidst a global pandemic.
Perfect for listeners keen on understanding the future of people analytics and those looking to advance their knowledge on managing talent in a globally integrated manner. Be sure to subscribe to our Substack newsletter, watch our YouTube videos, and consider supporting us as a patron. All opinions are our own.
Why do scientists disagree even when they have the same data and methods
Alec’s previous book: Strategic Analytics (check out the big font version)
Mark’s previous books: The HR Scorecard, The Workforce Scorecard, and The Differentiated Workforce
